Editor:
Horse slaughter can not be ever humane. Recent video from inside one of the slaughter houses have made this clear.
Pro-slaughter people have the whole idea of the slaughter wrong. It is not humane when every second horse has to be stunned more than two times. The end of the slaughter in the states has destroyed the market for horses and is just a make-believe to gain ground in this industry.
The whole problem surrounding horse slaughter is the issue of over breeding. Not that the end of slaughter has dropped the market value of horses, but the over breeding and over excess of available horses.
Horses are being bred because there is no regulation for breeding. Back yard breeders have bred horses in large numbers just to sell them at auctions to the meat buyer. The AQHA is the worst known offender in this breeding industry, breeding for color and disposition, sending their offspring that is not to their liking to slaughter, to breed some more.
If the breeding of horses, as well as dogs and cats, would be regulated, if measurements would be put in place to help neuter, geld and fix male animals and females animals, the number of unwanted animals would decrease and prices for horses would go back to normal.
Besides that, the horse meat industry is a sickening business on which we make plenty of money slaughtering those animals to sell their poisoned meat to other countries, endangering the health of other people who are told that the horse meat is safe and healthy.
This needs to stop. We can not keep slaughtering an excess of 100,000 horses every year and say this is a necessary evil to dispose of horses. We need to control the breeding of the horses to regain ground in price and value for the horse.
A horse is not livestock. A horse is a pet for you and me and any human who has a heart and does not agree with the inhumane treatment or slaughter.
Tanja Murrer
Granum, Alberta
Canada
Yet another pathetic lie and attack of our constitutional rights by another self-righteous arrogant tyrant. This letter is filled with incorrect information and a complete disregard for the freedoms and values this country was built upon-of course-the author is not a US citizen-so she really has no right to any input for this country…FACT: horse slaughter is no more “inhumane” than any other species slaughtered-it is the inspectors job to insure animals slaughtered are humanely treated and have authority to stop a plant if animals are mistreated…FACT: these “videos” posted show only what the poster wants to show you-NOT the truth-just because they show a couple of horses that have to be shot a second time in NO way means that is the norm-infact, you can count on that ALL the other horses were killed on the first shot or they would have posted it in the video…incidentally, the latest videos put on by the ARs show completely the opposit that they say-the horses were ALL in very good shape, VERY calm and content, and were NOT thrashing around and spooked when in the “kill box”-unlike what they claim. FACT: horses are PRIVATE personal property-NOT the property of the public-and people who own them have the right to breed and sell them to who ever they want-meat buyers included. FACT: horsemeat has had FEWER drug residue violations than any other meat-nearly ALL drugs given to horses are the exact same as what cattle and other species get-and have withdrawal times…as for the argument of “bute”-very few horses are actually given this-I have had dozens of horses and only used it once-other breeders I know very seldom use it-and it has been proven to be eliminated from the horses system within a few days-if people have to use it so often as the anti-slaughter crowd rants about, their horses should be taken from them and they shouldnt be allowed to own horses if their horses are in such pain that they continually use it (this is alie perpetuated by them) The author has every right to do with HER horses as she wants…however, she has NO RIGHT to tell ANYONE ELSE what they may or may not do with THEIR horses-her insinuation that anyone who is pro slaughter is heartless shows her childish and self-righteous way of thinking….So-let the deluge of comments from the other anti slaughter tyrants begin…just remember that their BIASED claims can ALL be refuted…it is sad that there are so many people in this country that feel their opinions is above the constitutional rights of US citizens-I have no respect for these people whatsoever and will not waste my time on them.
amen and amen
Too bad you don’t want to give any time to discussing this issue – it is important that it be discussed and that in that discussion you come to terms with the fact that those of us who stand to protect the horse will not back down on any of your so-called rights. The majority of the prople of this country (United States of America) do not favor horse slaughter. Why? Because, unlike you fed up and po’d farmers, their idea of a horse is a bonding, willing, pleasant, intelligent, cooperative, loyal and hardworking partner to man (sometimes even a babysitter). Your idea of the horse – a pathetic breathing machine to be butchered when its immediate use to you is done. That is why over 80% in some polls say NO HORSE SLAUGHTER.
Not to mention that the last time horse slaughter plants were in the US and everyone’s back was busy doing something else – horses were showing up at the plants with broken off legs, missing eyes, about to give birth (which did not stop their evisceration). USDA, paid by taxpayers to ensure the wellbeing of the animals, took hundreds of photos of only those animals they came upon. And not to mention that the last plants in the US were continuously fined for pollution, odors and made the surrounding populace sick to their stomachs watching truckloads of stolen, frightened horses going to their demise. It was the school children that got to me – you know the ones I mean – the children who came upon the piles of horse parts. Horse slaughter brings out the worst in man – we don’t need it. And frankly, I don’t want a penny of my tax money being spent to inspect the meat of an animal who has been betrayed and abused. We keep bringing up abused simply because when the horses become frightened they mill or rush gates or crowd each other. In order for handlers to move them, the horse has to fear the handler more than the circumstances and so handling becomes rough and brutal. Every state law against cruelty is broken, continuously. NO HORSE SLAUGHTER in the United States PERIOD!
“Yet another pathetic lie and attack of our constitutional rights by another self-righteous arrogant tyrant.”
Can I just say one thing? Hey Mr. or Mrs. Flag Waiver. Your “constitutional right” to slaughter horses is to be paid for by American Tax payers! If you wish to slaughter a horse, have fun (though God is watching) but don’t ask me to pay for it. Sorry, I mean do not stomp on my rights and force me to pay for it. I thought you Tea Party rednecks were all against tax increases? Hmmm? Hypocritical much? Oh and before you start, I am no tree-hugger. I am a cowboy of 42 years of age and own 3 horses and would just assume slice my own throat before sending my boys to an unjust, cruel death just to line to pockets of a few noisy political dimwits who are pushing for this.
Ya’ll have a nice day now, hear?
Amen, Amen, Amen!!!
I don’t think we should cling to a “right” that is inhumane and cruel.
Anyone who can view pictures of horses being abused during transport and abused and tortured during slaughter and STILL claim it is an acceptable practice, has got to be a sociopath. Horse slaughter cannot be made “humane”, the meat os toxic, and the industry is all about greed and nothing but greed.
Here are a few links to honest info about horse slaughter and horse meat.
Please read this excellent paper written by Ann Marini, a medical doctor.http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/Food_and_Chemical_Toxicology_FINAL.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GfzX4Fx5xuE#!
Observations and Opinions of a Horse Killer (part 1)
http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/captive_bolt.htm
I was born and raised on a small dairy and crop farm in central Ohio and completely agree with the author of this article. As a farmer, I am tired of other “farmers” moaning all of the time about being picked on or having their rights taken away. I was raised to respect the animals we had on the farm and we never sent horses to slaughter. While horses are livestock they aren’t meat animals. The one commenter above must not be a real farmer and is clearly not a horse owner. I have had and been around horses all of my life and almost every one of them has gotten bute at one point. All get dewormers. Both drugs are banned. Meaning, you can NEVER use them on an animal sent for food no matter when it happened. Not a single drug approved for horses is approved for horses sent to slaughter. I suggest the one commenter sit down and relax and take some time to reflect what really makes him angry. It is time to ban horse slaughter! We shouldn’t be taking our limited number of slaughterhouse inspectors for our own food out of the process so they can work in foreign owned slaughterhouses. As a tea party supporter that is what makes me mad. I don’t want my tax dollars going to help prop up a foreign industry. If we have money it should go to helping American industries.
I agree with you!!!!!!
You do realize that OUR American horses are being shipped to OTHER COUNTRIES to be slaughtered, don’t you? Shipped to Mexico, to be stabbed in the spine, being rendered paralyzed and then their throat slit and bled out, completely aware? And you say you respect animals? Mr. Happy Farmer…what happens to your dairy cows when they can no longer produce milk? Are your cows completely drug free? Do you deworm your horses and cows? Do you deworm your steers as you feed them out to go to slaughter, or deworm them before you sell them to the feedlot? Do you ever give your cows antibiotics?
do you know that the exact same dewormer that is given to cattle is given to horses, funny thing if you read the tube it gives you a WITHDRAWL time for cattle. Funny thing that is. .You can also submitte a question to the FDA and ask for withdrawl times on ALL DRUGS and they will give it to you INCLUDING ALL DEWORMERS
Interesting you would bring up cattle, sheep, pigs and how they are fed some of the same substances horses are fed. It may be time that cattle production is placed under closer scrutiny and find out just how badly we have been being poisoned ourselves. But then we have all been receiving warnings about the danger of eating red meat for years – now we find out the real reason for those warnings? Thanks Daphne for that … in the meantime, everyone stop eating corporate raised meat.
We do need horse processing plants up and running here in the USA again, there is a need for this. Iam a horse owner here in OHIO and I have never ever given any of my horses BUTE.It is also a proven faact that Bute dose not stay in the system for ever like the anti’s would like you all to think, every chemical has a withdraw period.Thay also would like us all tp think that horses should not be used as food because the are given wormers,,seriously,so are cattle,sheep,pigs,goats and every other form of livestock that are used for food.If you don’t want to send your horse to slaughter then don’t,but stop telling others they can’t and stop spreading lies about how bad horse meat is for us. You all that are against horse slaughter, how bout we round up all the unwanted horses and send them to your house, you can care for them with your own money, how bout that. regular livestock owners like myself don’t get donations to care for our animals,but we care for them,n love them anyway. When you start paying for my horses feed aand vet care then you can tell me weather i can send it to slaughter or not, what I choose is my buisness, what someone else chooses is thier buisness.
that is exactly right.give us your address and we will send you winers a truck load of lame horses and every horse and pony over 20 years old every week. p.s now dont be bashfull.
Why send them to us? Why not send them to the ones who created this mess to begin with? I just love how the breeders want to crank them out and then dump them on the rescues. Do they have ANY scruples or morals at all?
Dear Al,
You are so misinformed!! It isn’t old, sick horses that are being sent to slaughter, it is healthy young animals that are also included. Just look at horse adoption sites and you will find healthy, young horses that have been spared a horrible death at the slaughter house!! Until we start taxing breeders to maintain a healthy balance of horses in North America, we will always have unwanted horses, but slaughter is not the answer; finding new homes is. Horses are not food animals.
How about we also publish your address for the millions of people becoming sick from toxic horsemeat in China, Russia and Italy? Then when their attorneys want to serve those responsible for the illnesses their clients are suffering – they will know right where to go. I don’t want our country exposed to this sort of liability through the USDA. Do you? No? Well maybe you have lots of money stashed someplace. Do you have any idea how many billions of dollars this country will have to pay for wrongful death and personal injury (pray no child dies) because of your sick insistence that horsemeat be provided from the shores of America. Please do some research. Don’t act stupid just to prove a point.
hey JAN did you know that if you ate a horse that had bute in his system say 2 weeks ago, IN ORDER for you to get sick or a child to get sick you have to eat 100lbs at ONE SITTING just to get a traceable amount of bute. IT has been proven. As for other things you all like to slap around that is tainted, did you know that the beef you eat has been dewormed with the EXACT same stuff as you use on your horses and OMG it has a withdrawl time. just saying.
Another thing, the tainted meat crap is just something the stupid anti side has came up with . as for the ppl getting sick from horse meat READ the article they got it from eating RAW I repeat RAW horse meat, you can get sick and die from eating ANY Meat that is RAW.
are yo claiming that every horse that gets slaughtered is unwanted? Or do you claim that the horses that are slaughtered are bred for slaughter? That the EID, required by the EU, is working and no drugged horses will enter the food chain? You are making a lot of assumption it seems.
Is it like with the dogs? We don’t want to spend the needle to euthanize or try to find a new home, we just bring them to the shelter to have them taken care of.
If people that think like you, would have a saying in this world….I wouldn’t want to live in it. You are just plain ignorant. you can not really say we should slaughter every year around 100.000 horses because they are unwanted. BS
sorry that reply was written for okistorm
Please see my post above. An article was just published yesterday about a changing criteria for administfation of antibiotics, now wormers? My goodness – so you all are letting the cat out of the bag and just to prove a point. Read my earlier posts on not being stupid.
The meat industry, in the interest of the almighty dollar, has been poisoning their customers for how long?
Okay, well just goes to show you that once again the horses lead the way.
Dear okie
Are You one of the Slaughter House Sue follower’s or are you working for a lobbying firm being paid big bucks to sit at your computer and spread your garbage about wonderful horse slaughter is?
Horse slaughter is not accepted as a solution to dispose of horses you do not want. If you can’t afford the price of humane euthanasia and carcass disposal you should not own a horse. In most areas, it costs about $200-$250 a month to feed a horse, the same amount as it costs to have a vet humanely euthanize your horse. Every state has people who dispose of livestock carcasses (cows do die before they become meat). Call your state’s Department of Agriculture or your county extension service for a number to call. It should not cost over $100.
Christie, my thoughts exactly!!! That is good horse ownership, that you are prepared to provide a humane death when needed. If horse owners would get that through their heads, instead of looking for an easy way out, we wouldn’t have slaughter houses. There are also good rescue farms that will take a horse off your hands for you if you can’t afford to keep it anymore and put it up for adoption if needed.
One more thang, horses are livestock, not pets, breeding has gone way down, want proof go to any AQHA or APHA web sight.
Now THAT is some wonderful news there. Cause those breeders are the numero uno offender of the overbreeding of horses. WHY won’t they just stop? I mean, they shot themselves in the foot by breeding, breeding and breeding SO many horses. Their house of cards had to come tumbling down at some point.
The fact that the FDA has stated that they have NOT tested for bute in horses proves that there is a WITHDRAWL period for it. Funny thing about wormers, cattle are GIVEN THE EXACT same dewormer that a horse is given and IT was a withdrawl time. NOW isn’t that funny. Im a HORSE owner and have been since I was 12, i am 36. I have rodeoed, shown, have DONE it all. have worked at a slaughter house per requirement for college, I have seen it. 95% of the horses that go thru the slaughter line are NOT abused, scared etc. Another false lie that some like to tell you is that horses FEAR death and the smell of blood. If that was true then pray tell WHY would my horses and friends horses, stand and watch a steer being butchered or a deer gutted WITHIN touching distance, not move, or bat an eye or freak out. WHY ? because they DO NOT fear the smell of death or blood. What they do fear is that they can’t get their feet. So the movement of what looks like a horse is freaking out because “oh my god im gonna die” is because the horse can’t get his feeting.
Im sick and tired of ppl telling others that you can’t do this or you can’t do that.
NOW if the IRS considers the horse to be LIVESTOCK, and the USDA does as well, WHy can’t everyone else, OH thats right they live in a fairy tale land where the pretty ponies never get sick or die.
I have owned lots of horses over the yrs, and I ONLY deworm when fecals tell me to, I have a 9 yr old horse that has NEVER EVER needed to be dewormed, and ONLY one horse in all of my 36 yrs of life have ever gotten bute.
The fda told me that ALL banned drugs DO IN FACT have a withdrawl time , your vet can access a website offered by them and they give all withdrawl times for ALL drugs including those that are banned.
Wrong FSIS reports CLG BBZ 3.0 date 11-8-2002 and clgbbz 2.01 01/30/2006, it is in the liver and the kidney, and in the bone and other parts of the body. So tired of this. Sure you send me a truck load of slaughter horses, they are usually fat, healthy, breeder cast offs, have a big barn outside of town will be cheaper then you all gouging the prices, so you can make a buck. And I will say it here as I have other places, if you cant get more then 50 bucks for your horse at the sale barn or even more, it is still cheaper for you to eat your own horse then by beef, so go eat your own horse, stop asking my tax dollars to pay for your half baked, ideas of civil rights, your civil rights stop when you ask me to pay for you to have them. Grow up get a buisiness plan, live on a budget, stop asking me to pay your bail out, with money the government doesnt have to use to keep other products safe, however, if you want to send me your horses free let us know, we will solve this once and for, tired of the threats, your bluff is called, I just saw the load that crossed into Canada the other day, not a single old, skinny, broke down horse there, There is no way to remove phenylbutazone from an animal carcass. The Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS), the regulatory arm of the USDA, has sophisticated testing for phenylbutazone. The issue is that during the time the slaughter houses were open in the US, FSIS was using the wrong part of the horse carcass to test for phenylbutazone. The highest level of phenylbutazone residue is found in the kidney but FSIS was testing fat, a region of the carcass that would test negative. The fat from the two horse carcasses that tested positive must have received a huge amount of phenylbutazone. I say this because almost all of the phenylbutazone stays in the bloodstream. Kidney retains the highest level of residue because the parent compound, phenylbutazone, and its metabolite which has the same toxic profile, oxyphenbutazone, are excreted by the kidney. Liver retains the second highest level of phenylbutazone and oxyphenbutazone residues because phenylbutazone is metabolized in the liver. Smaller levels of phenylbutazone and oxyphenbutazone residues are found in other organs such as the heart. Muscle contains the least amount of residue.
The whole idea behind using the organ retaining the highest level of residue is based upon detection. Every assay has detection limits. That is, the lowest level of residue that can be detected depends on the assay used. The assay that FSIS uses to detect phenylbutazone is extremely sensitive, meaning that it can detect very low levels of residue. So, you want to select the organ that retains the highest level of residue to maximize your ability to detect the compound of interest.
The sensitive assay used to detect phenylbutazone is very expensive because: 1) it is a two-step process and 2) the second step uses Mass Spectrometry a very sensitive and expensive piece of equipment.
I know of no way to adequately examine horse carcasses in plants. Horses, unlike cows, develop musculoskeletal injuries primarily in their legs. If the legs are removed prior to inspection, no inspector will suspect that the horse was given phenylbutazone. Bute is usually given orally as a paste or pill so needle marks will not be helpful. Needle marks will be helpful for antibiotic injection but not bute administration. In my opinion, every horse carcass will need to be tested for phenylbutazone which will be prohibitively expensive using the standard method.
I would not recommend anyone from FSIS as they seemed to be quite complacent about the fact that the wrong part of the carcass was tested. Perhaps, their budget was cut and they considered the testing a waste of money given that horse meat was not distributed in the US. In my opinion, however, the failure of FSIS to test the proper organ resulted in the distribution and sale of hundred of thousands of pounds of contaminated horsemeat to unassuming consumers. That is, people overseas did not know they were eating contaminated horsemeat. Thus, any illness(es) developed by these people that would be attributed to the side effects of bute and oxyphenbutazone would not be considered by physicians because the meat was tested and found to be safe. Right? WRONG.
Our study showed that 18 Thoroughbred horses were given bute prior to being bought for slaughter. In online newspaper articles, I found several race horses destined for slaughter that were given bute even on the day they were bought for slaughter. Lights on Broadway, a race horse that was rescued off the slaughter truck by a trainer, was given bute just 6 weeks prior to being on that truck. Those articles appeared within months of submitting our article for publication (2009). Again, in my opinion, residue testing is woefully underfunded and inadequate, given the scoundrels that are profiting from this “business.”
Attached are the SOPs for bute testing by FSIS using kidney (cow). A simple search on PubMed would have shown them that kidney from horse contains the highest level of bute residue just like cow.
Just in case you have not seen this one,
That letter part about th ebute is not my writing it is a letter from an official.
A little scientific information for you from Association of phenylbutazone usage with horses bought for slaughter:
A public health risk
Nicholas Dodman a, Nicolas Blondeau b, Ann M. Marini and published in 2/2010 in Food and Chemical Toxicology.
“In horses, phenylbutazone is metabolized in the liver where it is
converted to oxyphenbutazone, c-hydroxyphenylbutazone and
probably c-hydroxy-phenbutazone and follows a bi-exponential
model of decay. The plasma half-life of PBZ is 5.46 h in young
horses but is longer in horses older than ten years and those with
impaired liver function. In addition, PBZ uptake into the bloodstream
is delayed by food in the stomach (Lees et al., 1985, 1986,
1987, Maitho et al., 1986, McConnico et al., 2008). Oxyphenbutazone
is a major metabolite of PBZ and remains elevated up to at
least 72 h (Lees et al., 1985, 1986, 1987, McConnico et al., 2008).
Tissue levels of phenylbutazone and oxyphenbutazone were highest
in kidney. In one study, high levels were also found in liver,
lung and heart whereas the lowest levels were found in muscle
(gluteus and biceps) and tendon (Lees et al., 1987). Since the elimination
of PBZ follows exponential decay, traces of PBZ will remain
as a contaminant of horsemeat in previously treated horses for a
very long and as yet undetermined period of time.
Oxyphenbutazone has NSAID properties and at one time was
thought to be less toxic that PBZ. However, oxyphenbutazone also
has serious adverse effects in humans including those of producing
aplastic anemia, agranulocytosis, thrombocytopenia, leucopenia,
pancytopenia, and hemolytic anemia (Chaplin, 1986). The
mortality rate of PBZ- and oxyphenbutazone-induced aplastic
anemia was 94% and 71%, respectively (Benjamin et al., 1981;
Böttiger and Westerhom, 1973; Cameron et al., 1966; Chaplin,
1986; Deaths due to butazolidin, 1952; Dunn, 1972; Etess and
Jacobson, 1953; Hale and DeGruchy, 1960). Overall, the data suggest
that the risk for the development of the lethal adverse effects
in humans by PBZ and oxyphenbutazone are not always dosedependent
indicating an idiosyncratic effect. In addition to its
well-known bone marrow suppression effects, PBZ is also associated
with a hypersensitivity reaction in the liver which can cause
death (Benjamin and Ishak, 1981). Taken together, it is clear why
phenylbutazone is currently unavailable for human use in the
United States and is banned in animals destined for human
consumption.”
As for eating of raw meat – that was a disastrous outcome of trichinosis invasion of humans eating raw horsemeat. Perhaps horses from the filthy auction and feedlots where they are kept before shipment across the border (another abusive and cruelty practice fond acceptable by the slaughter industry).
So I take it you don’t want your address published for all legitimate inquiries on who might be responsible for personal injury and wrongful death. Also do a little google search on the global epidemic of aplastic anemia. I will not be responsible and urge all who truly care about their responsibility to others to stand up and demand a ban on horse slaughter – NOW. There are currently two bills, one a Senate bill (S.1176) and one a House bill (H.R. 2966), which are being held in committee while America falls asleep again. Don’t let it happen again. Demand these bills be passed to the floor and voted on for presentation to President Obama for signature and passage into law. It is time we take our country back and hold to the values we all believe it stands for.
For anyone who thinks that PBZ is dumped during evisceration, think again. If the meat is red at all, it is carrying blood.
I like that one, I asked that same ??? on the UH group, got banned comments deleted, well what was said you all put up a bond against all you wealth, all your family wealth, you name that no one will ever get sick, heck one of them here says they have been eating horse meat already, they should jump at this. We will make a deal with you, all you pro slaughter folks, the next load that is in the feed lot on its way to Canada in the next day or so, you give us, that load, they are wanted, they are healthy, you dont kill a sick horse at the slaughter plant. And instead of selling it at those aucitons you all say the price is ss2@, call us, we will give you that $50 you say you get for that great stock you have since there is all this crap old sick dead dying horses out there??? See, I know what goes throught he auctions. Great horses, still great prices, have you tried to buy a Fresian lately? QH’s is like a ford truck in OK, one on every street, sometimes three or four, market guys supply demand. And since this was started by your newest leader, Just what are you going to do when we get slaughter banned for good, not export?? I have spent the last 3 months, long before the stuff got to the congress again, looking at this, we have a plan, this plan will lauch soon, it will handle the very reason your pro backers want dealt with. This is not about you little cogs in the wheel, you shall soon see that!!!
*like*
Horses are not pets. Pets are animals that can be brought inside your house. If someone chooses to treat *their* horse as a pet, nobody is going to try to make them do otherwise. Horses are big animals that can kill you accidentally in a second without meaning to. What anyone chooses to do with any animal they legally own should not be anyone else’s business.
I agree, just dont ask me to pay for the slaughter plants, the cost to trade, or our current food safety, said that all along, you want to eat your horse go for it.
Well, if it’s about not using our tax dollars where we don’t want them used, I don’t want to pay for schools. I have no children. I do not want to pay for welfare…don’t use it…same for food stamps. I could go on…..
Well, cats and dogs in the wild go for the jugular…they’re pets, snakes are pets and they can kill, it’s in their nature. They are predatory animals. Funny thing is, Horses are prey animals not predatory. Yes they are large and they can kill accidentally. However, they will never do it on purpose. They are actually gentle animals if you’ve ever truly spent time watching a herd. They are familial. So your definition of pets is not truly correct.
Cats are solitary animals, especially in the wild. Dogs are pack animals, however in the wild will kill one another over food. Horses are herd or “familial” animals and while they may fight over issues such as stallions over their mares or protecting their young, they will try not to step on you when you have fallen from their back.
Since the closure of the US horse slaughtering plants the pro slaughter groups have spent millions of dollars on paid lobbyists and propaganda in an effort to re-open slaughter facilities. They achieved a small victory in November when a few politicians held a closed door session and removed language from the 2012 Agriculture Appropriations Bill that would have continued to ban funding for USDA inspectors in horse slaughtering plants. This decision was based on misinformation provided by various pro slaughter and special interest groups.
Due to economic conditions every small animal rescue in this country has experienced a significant increase in abandonment and neglect cases. However, pro horse slaughter articles cite the closure of the US slaughter plants as the sole reason for equine cases. Horse owners still have the option to sell and ship to slaughter but approximately the same number of American horses have been slaughtered each year since the US plants were closed as when the plants were open. Since the slaughter option is still available, it’s ridiculous to assume that owners are starving and abandoning horses because of the location of slaughter plants. If a true relationship existed between slaughter and the number of abuse/neglect cases, the number of horses slaughtered would have significantly increased while the number of abandonment and abuse cases would have decreased.
Pro slaughter groups claim that opening plants in the US will create jobs and increase tax revenue. The last three plants in the US, all foreign owned, employed less than 200 people in low-paying positions with the majority of the workers proven to be undocumented. In one year the Beltex plant in Texas generated millions in income but paid a total of $5 in federal income taxes. This was largely due to the tax benefits offered to foreign owned corporations which is why they operated plants in the US as opposed to their own countries. The cost to the communities in which these plants resided was astronomical. Regardless of EPA oversight, regulations continued to be ignored. The plants were repeatedly charged with wastewater violations. In some areas this illegal activity caused blood products to seep into homes. The same violations take place at the Canadian slaughter plants one of which was recently closed after it was found to be illegally dumping truckloads of blood into a river. In every area in which a horse slaughtering plant existed, increases in crime, including stolen horse cases, and decreases in property values occurred.
Those in favor of slaughtering horses claim that horse flesh is safe to consume. This may have been true in the 1920’s and 1930’s before the widespread use of equine medications became commonplace. Currently, we give our horses numerous medications to keep them healthy and comfortable. One of the most regularly used medications is Phenylbutazone (bute). Bute, an NSAID, is as common to equines as aspirin is to humans. At one time this drug was prescribed to humans but was pulled from the market after causing significant health detriments including deaths due to aplastic anemia. While the US plants tested for bute, of the 140,000 horses slaughtered in 2005 only 318 samples were taken. Of these, 10% were positive for bute. More frightening is the fact that the samples were tested using the ELISA method which is a urine based test. There is no research to show how long bute or its many metabolites remain in muscle tissue which is precisely why the FDA completely bans this product from use in food producing animals including cattle. Even pet food manufacturers understand the hazards of bute which is why in the 1970’s they ceased using horse meat in their products.
Other often used arguments claim that domestic slaughter is needed in order to set a minimum value for horses and to provide an outlet for old, sick and crippled horses. These arguments are based on an opinion that some owners, who value quantity over quality, and irresponsibility over doing the right thing, should be rewarded for producing a product which has no real marketable value. In other words, they want a set financial reward for producing an unwanted or unmarketable product instead of having to incur a cost to dispose of the product. Every industry relies on demand to price a product but the pro slaughter minority subset of the equine industry wants a base price set on supply. The ‘old, sick, and crippled’ argument is negated by the consistent reporting by the USDA that nearly 95% of horses slaughtered in the US were young and in good condition.
The last of the most often used pro slaughter arguments relates to the cost of humane euthanasia and disposal of horses. The cost of such averages $350. This amount is less than the monthly cost at a typical boarding facility and is not much more than the cost to euthanize and cremate a canine. Even the cost of a low quality, run of the mill saddle exceeds the cost of euthanasia and disposal.
Slaughter is not a humane death for horses. The USDA provided proof of this when they obliged a FOIA request for documented violations which occurred at the Beltex plant in Texas from January to November of 2005. This report is over 900 pages long and cites violations ranging from issues with transporting and incomplete documentation to the inhumane activities observed throughout the slaughter process which included horses still functioning and able to feel pain when bled out and vivisected.
With animal ownership comes the responsibility to provide food, water, safe shelter, and a humane death. Common sense dictates that the larger the animal, the greater the costs. One cost that none of should have to incur is the cost of providing USDA inspectors in horse slaughtering plants. If the taxpayer funded USDA can spare millions of dollars, this money should be used to inspect facilities that produce or import products that Americans consume, not toxic products sold to unsuspecting foreign markets.
Animal Advocates of Michigan
well that 350.00 must be in your area only. because let me give you some prices here in my area. IF you are the lucky few that can bury your horse on your place, and you do not have a backhoe and no close friends you are looking at a price tag of – 300.00 DOWN and 350.00 a day rental. IF you can’t bury to haul to the dump, you MUST have the dump come and pick said animal up, that will cost you upwards of 500.00, or to render it will be upwards of 1000.00 depending on IF the one you call will even take said animal. Now depending on where you are at, the cost of the vet. In my area there is ONLY ONE horse vet for my county, he charges 150.00 for the farm call, and 150.00 for the blue juice. NOW if you use out of county depending on where you are at you are looking at upwards of 300.00 just for the farm call and 150.00 for the juice.
NOW here is the neat thing. ALL BANNED drugs DO in fact have a withdrawl period PER the FDA who sets all the standards for drugs used. The fda stated to me in an email that ALL drugs wether banned or not have a withdrawl time. I wonder why that is so darn hard for the anti slaughter crowd to understand. THE FDA theirselves stated all drugs banned or not have a withdrawl period. NOW the FDA also stated the ONLY reason why bute is banned in horses for human consumption is because they DON”T look at horses as livestock, they told me it has nothing to do with what bute MAY(big word here) cause, it is because the FDA does not see them as livestock. NOW they said IF they change the status of the equine to livestock then they will test for bute in the meat of the horse and change or lift the bann
daphane, if you can’t afford to take care of a sick or dieing horse and can’t afford to dispose of its carcass then you shouldn’t be in the horse business. Its as simple as that!
When John Hettinger wrote this phrase before his death several years ago, y’all salivating for horse slaughter hadn’t come up with “harvesting” yet, otherwise I’m sure he would have included it. He was a stunning horseman who truly valued the animals. Living, breathing, companions. Not meat. You can call HORSE SLAUGHTER AND BUTCHERING whatever you want, let’s call it a “Walk in the Park”… it’s still prolonged cruelty to a horrific, needless death of an animal that was never intended to be eaten and therefore completely unregulated for the food chain. This is what John came up with:
“I believe there is one catch phrase which is contributing greatly to the confusion surrounding horse slaughter. That phrase is ‘unwanted horses.’ They wanted them when they bought them, didn’t they? Horses are the responsibility of their owners who owe them kindly treatment through life and a peaceful death administered by caring hands. Period! Enabling a callous and irresponsible person to walk away from a (perceived) problem, pocket a few hundred dollars and feel good about it, is a disservice to our industry and the animal they profess to care about. In this they are helped by the enablers who refer to ‘‘processing’ rather than slaughter and ‘plants’ rather than slaughterhouses.” John Hettinger
Why would other options not be possible? With Safety Net Programs, Food Shares, Hay Banks, Euthanasia Clinics, Care Credit, Rescues, Gelding Clinics, Therapeutic Riding Associations, Humane Societies, Free Listing Services, Retirement Homes, other community equine owners and professionals willing to help, ALL AVAILABLE, what would make it impossible to NOT use slaughter as an option? Well, besides GREED…
On top of that, NOTHING about a horse is inexpensive. Not one thing. You probably spent more on bug spray last summer than it would take to humanely euthanize your horse if you had to. You probably wouldn’t think twice about a $1,500. Circle Y saddle, but OH THE HORROR if it’s $500. to afford the horse you “LOVE” a respectful, pain and stress free humane death. It’s called responsible ownership. Practice it. Your horse will love you for it and it will virtually wipe out the “unwanted” horse myth over night. All horses have owners, they are not running in the streets and alleys breeding like cats. If the owner are all responsible, there will be no “unwanted horses”, only horses.
We don’t need to slaughter 1% of the horse population every year. If you believe it, let’s talk about a bridge… All you have to do is say NO. Then call your members of congress and ask for their support on the Horse Slaughter Prevention Act. It’s time to try something new, slaughter has never worked as a population control. It won’t now.
DID I say i could NOT afford it. NO i am the LUCKY FEW who can bury their horses, BUT i would rather render them OR donate bodies to big cats or zoos, BUT because of stupid choices i pumped their bodies full of the blue juice to kill them except for one, and he was shot in the head to be put down, but his body was full of antibotics due to an infection, so now instead of them being utilized they are rotting in the ground. LUCKYly away from any water tables. What about the ppl who board who take very well care for that horse. I hate the IF you can’t put it down then don’t get it. You know what that card is NOT playable at all.
owning an animal has the same responsibility as having children. If you can’t afford them, why are you having them? If you already had no food on your table would you still take in another mouth to feed?
The death of common sense will most certainly always bring with it more “regulation”. When an industry loses its’ ability to self regulate, it will attract the attention of the socio-political busy bodies who love to ram their view points down everyone elses’ throats. The “regulation” is the price the rest of us will ultimately pay for irresponsibly ownership and that goes for anyone who owns livestock.
There is sometimes a HUGE conflict of interest between FDA, USDA and public health. We know that.
The whole bute thing….I would like to see some cites either way. I do know from horse showing that horses that were regularly buted were only withdrawn for 48 hours before the possibility of testing. That would tell me that it is not detectable via a urine test after 48 hours. There are very few compounds that stay in the body forever. The liver is very good at it’s job.
What is this world coming too. All the polls say NO to horse slaughter in the USA not in my backyard horses are not raised for food. What is wrong with this picture. Do people have any feelings anymore for anything!!!!
The ban being lifted on horses processing was not a closed backroom deal.it was in the 2012 bill. This 2012 bill was despalyed on c-span and c-span2. the agricultrue bill that was part of the 2012 bill was broken down and discussed befor it was voted on. Anyone with dish network or direct tv could of watched this, i did. This was also allover the internet before it was sent to congress or the senate.To say this was a backroom, behind closed door deal is just not true.The anti’s hd thier petition going around trying to stop this from being passed so did our side.Everyone knew about the riders and lack of.There is a reason this passed and the reason is because it is so very needed in the USA again.Right now dr.Temple Grandin is working on planse for a state of the art equine processing plant for the state of Wy.but you all know that already, this has also been going around the internet.This is going to happen,you do not have to take your animals to slaughter if you choose not to.
Wrong again. Verbiage was removed from an omnibus bill by three politicians: Kingston, Kohl and Blunt, behind closed doors. And at the last minute, when they knew no one would have time too review a/o rebut. They also knew that Obama was out of the country at the time, which furthered their slimy agenda. Baucus, DC, the official “Drunk of Capital Hill” was also involved. Look it up. Oh, I forgot, you like to manufacture your “facts.” The truth is, you are a liar.
Yes it was back room, you just do not see that cause it went your way, the confrence group removed it, not a full vote on it the defunding stuff. Dr. Grandin has said publicly she is not working with any body to build a new plant, and since there are no permits, try again. Oh dont tell anyone we know where it is at, and WY is not it, and neither is WA, remeber me, I am the one who said, my job gives me the ability to talk to people and not say who. So guess again, you have 47 more states, oh nope take out TX IL and CA, and I thnk FL, so lets see 43, and since I know which one and I am anti slaughter hows that make all you little people feel, and you have not won yet, it will get banned, and i am going to ask again.
What are all you going to do when you can no longer ship them to slaughter over the borders, and you can not slaughter here? What then????
YOU ARE RIGHT, MARIE!!! It was a back room deal. It was put in the bill too late to do anything about it. The bill had to be passed and there was no time to rewrite it and get it passed in time. JUST those 3 Congressmen knew what they were doing. Just 3 Congressmen spoke for the 70% of American’s who are against horse slaughter. They were on the final committee and had the power to keep the language out. But you all forget that this bill will come back next year, so this is not a done deal. And anyone investor looking at this business knows it. And now we know the tricks and it won’t happen again.
I don’t agree nor support the Horse Processin plants in this Country. The Horse is Americas animal..sadly this is a nessicery evil. If you have horses don’t send em.. if you like horses and don’t want to see them killed; im sorry its a nessicery evil we all have to just be happy with. I would much rather a horse be put out of it’s misery then suffer in a home to which he/she cannot be taken care of… Thank You and God Bless you all… R.I.P. to all the horses who have been slaughtered and to those who suffer in homes that they dont have owners who care… God Bless!
You’re a Quarter Horse person and your association has brought you up to over breed and told you how easy it is to get rid of the ones that don’t measure up. They have taught you to how to desensitize your feelings for the horse. Horse slaughter is not necessary. One cannot say they love horses and then send them to the horrors of horse slaughter. Call a vet if you need to put your horse down. Yes it does costs the horse owner money to put the horse down. Horse slaughter is only for the money, it serves no other purpose. Those who buy the horse cheap or steal it, the KB’s and sell it for the money. They don’t care about the welfare of the horses. American’s don’t eat horse meat nor do our pets. Find another way to dispose of your horse, like sell it or donate it and don’t get another one because you can’t handle it.
To the Anti-Slaughter People:
Last year went sent about 100,000 horses to slaughter (i.e. used as meat). The way I understand the slaughter on horses ban is that NO horses will be allowed to be exported from this country or slaughtered in this country. So correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t that leave 100,000 unwanted horses without homes?
So if the average horse needs:
$300 for it care per mont…h (feed, farrier, vet, land for grass/hay, feed, wormer, etc).
x 12 months = $3,600 per horse per yr.
*now we can look at the rescue pages and know that some horses with health problems will need more $ then this so I shot low.
Okay so…
100,000 horses
x $3,600
= 360 MILLION dollars per year to care for these horses.
My sincere question is WHO is or can pay for this. Let’s say that 2012 is the “Year of the Horse.” What is the PLAN! What alternatives can handle this in 1 year. I think it is critical that you all develop a crisis plan prior to legislating for change.
Because I hate to be negative but the last time you lobbied for and got a result it was a HOT MESS! The plants shut down without warning. Horses were taken to TX rejected, driven to IL and rejected, then taken god knows where or dumped in people’s pastures. I talked to one old man that had a load of horses dumped in his pasture. Then the entire market crashed causing horses to lose value. Animals that have value are treated better.
So please someone anyone answer the question if 2012 is the year of the horse how many homes do you have lined up? Who has an extra 360 million lying around to cough up?
Now I love horses. I have had the same horse sense I was 10 and he was 2. I am currently teaching my children to ride on him. I swear to you I don’t want any horse ever to go to slaughter. We can all agree we don’t want to see horses suffer. You don’t want them to be slaughtered I don’t want them to starve.
If there is no slaughter and no outlet for over breeding and dumping injured or sick horses, then breeders and owners will have to cut back breeding or take care of their horses. Breeders will get stuck with horses that don’t add up to breed standards. They will then have to breed more for quality and not quantity. Stopping slaughter will make horses better. And it will make irresponsible owners take care of their horses and not get paid to dump them. I don’t see how you pro-slaughter people can’t see that?
The ones going to slaughter now are just those getting cleaned out of those barns who have breed too many for too long. Horses are expensive now and a luxury and they are getting cut out of peoples lives. Its the economy! Its time to cut back or find another commodity to raise or grow. Why can you pro-slaughter people not see that? By opening slaughter houses you are giving horse breeders a reason to continue to raise crappy horses because they can make a few bucks from a foreign market. No matter what a few say, there is no way you will get enough American’s to eat horse. There will be no market here for the meat. Its time to look for other ways to make money. Times, they are a changing!
lynnil You are so correct, every word is true
Please answer the question. If slaughter stopped today what is the plan for 100,000 either on the ground or in utero.
Jennifer, Don’t yell at me, I didn’t see your question. Chill!!
Where do you get the 100,000 number? Do you know for a fact that there is 100,000 horses on the ground in the slaughter pipeline? I thought it was 100,000 a year going to slaughter, not in a day.Besides many rescues are moving horses. But many breeders are still breeding. The AQHA is still calling for breeding stallions this year. And many horses are sent to slaughter just “because.” If you tell people there will not be slaughter next year then they will stop breeding or else they will have to figure it out. Slaughter only gives people an easy way out of a problem. There is no way that slaughter will stop today,so there will not be 100,000 horses running down your street. I still carry a halter in my truck just in case I see some because that is what the pro-slaughter keeps saying is going to happen if we stop horse slaughter. Just tell me where you got your figure so I can study it. After all you might just enlighten me!
There is a new group called National Equine Network who is working on some things. There are also several programs starting up hay banks, gelding clinics and such. And if money was not spent saving horses from slaughter then that money could go to rescues and santuaries. There are options, people just have to look for them. And also both HSUS and AWI have new support groups starting. I recently got notice from both groups about their new programs. Just do some research.
And don’t yell at people. I could feel it in your post.
You could feel me yelling at you? That is a new one. I wasn’t yelling. I am not angry I am more amused. This is just silly! 100,000 horses per yr are being exported for slaughter (2010). Clearly not per day but per year. There is something like 19 million horses in the US now. I thought you all wanted 2012 to be the “Year of the Horse”? Meaning that slaughter would be shut down this year? So there wouldn’t be a years notice. I donn’t think there is any solution big enough to handle an extra 100,000 horses annually that doesn’t invlove slaughter. Already rescues everyone are in trouble. Horses aren’t even able to be given away in many cases. Hay and feed prices continue to rise. More and more individuals are in economic trouble. There simply isn’t enough money to care for them properly. I personally can see starving horses in my community. Not turned loose ones but neglected starving horses. Many people in my state and adjoining states commented on my facebook wall about the increase in neglect and abuse since the slaughter plants closed. As well as dumped horses. It disgust me to see horses in this condition. I would rather see them dead then starving. Check out my wall please. Jennifer Gatrel.
Jennifer, ANSWER MY QUESTION???? Where do you get the number that 100,000 horses will be on the ground the day horse slaughter ends???? Answer the QUESTION!!!!!Where did you get the figure of 19 million. I know of only 9 million.
If you know of a starving horse it is your duty as a caring human to call and get that horse help. I wonder what you are going to do about it. I wonder if you are going to be a part of the problem or are you going to fix the problem. You are living life with blinders on. Horse slaughter will not stop the problem. There is help out there and people can find it if they look for it. Many rescues go to auctions to buy horses out of the kill pen. So there is a place for your neighbors to take their horse if they need to find a place. If you do not help them or do not call the authorities then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!
Again 100,000 were exported for slaughter last yr. Google it. You will find that number on your own sites. How many times do I need to answer this.
I have ALWAYS been a part of the solution. I give free lessons weekly, I teach free clinics, I recently gave a horse away (kid broke 10 yr old mare) to ensure it got a good home. The problem is people like YOU!! Shelters are broke and are going to be in worse shape if the drought persists. Look on my page. There is people who have called the authorities and NOTHING happens. You have the blinders on.
I agree LynnIL….horse breeders are the main reason we have too many horses. If there was a tax applied to breeding applications/registrations, and that money was set aside to deal with the unwanted horses that would solve a lot of problems. All you need to do is check out the feedlots for the slaughter pipeline and count how many of the horses are from the racing industry….so sad that owners are not forced to provide a humane end of life!!
If the smart people would stop breeding horses, we wouldn’t have the issue of slaughter to begin with. If we wouldn’t throw that many horses out in the market every year, there would be no need to slaughter and the price per horse would recover, which in return would not only help the responsible breeder and save the tax payer, but would end the discussion of pro and anti slaughter of an companion animal pumped full of drugs.
to the pro-slaughterer Daphne Watson…YOU just don’t get it do YOU?? You think you are all smarty pants with your childish comments. Why is it SO hard for you to understand that the FDA doesn’t give a hoot about you and most certainly want to cover their own back ‘door’ with their comments at this time. They’ll tell any pro-slaughterer anything they want to hear because they’re trying to protect themselves.
Horses are not intended as a food animal PERIOD. If you cannot afford to humanely end your horses life when necessary, DON’T have one. Animals have rights to be treated with respect and dignity and a humane death, not be gutted while still alive. How sick is that?? All this is in the name of ECONOMICS! So if the government decides that in the name of economics, it is better to serve up FIDO or FIFI than give them an humane euthanasia, would you eat them too?? Why are we killing our horses… so other countries can’t benefit? And most breeders are the worst. They overbreed and overbreed looking for the perfect color or conformation and throw foals away like a cheap suit. What is wrong with people?? We anti-horse-slaughterers will continue to fight you hoof and tooth until we have all the horse kill buyers and slaughterhouses out of a job.
ha ha ha ha OMG gutted while still alive. GET REAL . I think you need a little education here. Once horse is rendering brain dead with the captive bolt, YES they are considered brain dead. A 6 inch bolt that enters the brain with a 250 psi behind it, kills the brain. THE HORSE CAN NOT regain it sense for feeling. The brain is dead. Yes you will still see movement, breathing, the heart will still beat for a few mins. BUT THE HORSE IS DEAD. the reason for all that is because the signals from the brain to the organs are delayed. The horse is bled out, therefor when it comes time to gut the horse is DEAD, there is no blood left in its body, no blood =not alive. They are DEAD.
You need to do your homework! I’m sure you’ve seen the articles…READ them thoroughly. Do you honestly think everyone is lying to YOU!! Why are SOOOO many horses ‘shot’ more than once with the captive bolt??? Because they are not dead!!! They keep getting up and get knocked down a second or third or 11 times!!! Watch the videos!! ‘Considered’ brain dead is NOT dead and it isn’t just involuntary movement while these horses are hanging upside down breathing, eye movement, squealing, kicking! They are still very much alive. It has been proven that within 30 seconds horses regain consciousness and feel pain and know what’s going on. You need lots more education about all this. Do you really think that once they stick them in the neck to bled them out that they are DEAD??? Wake up, and watch the videos and TRY to tell me they are dead!!
ummm I don’t need to watch edited videos, i have SEEN it first hand, worked there, had my hands involved in everything that deals with slaughter when i was in college. When you shot a PENATRATING CAPTIVE BOLT that is 6 inchs or MORE in length with 250 pounds per square inch behind it into a brain it turns that part of the brain to MUSH. There is NO brain activity at all. And if YOU have watched the vids, the only time that you see a horse being hit more then once is because the person is not sure and its called a for sure hit. Out of what 4 mins are what most vids that are put up are in length, it took them over 3 or 4 days to find what maybe 10 horses that were hit more then once. Out of what hundrend of horses.
AGAIN, once that bolt enters the brain the horse is RENDERED brain dead. Have YOU never seen what happens when a horse or any other animal dies? I have seen a steer moo, a deer still have muscle twitches long after the guts are removed. Once the brain is DEAD the animal is dead. YOU my dear need to do a little more research and stop following what your fellow anti’s TELL you to watch.
Daphne. If you won’t watch the videos then you cannot comment on their content and contend that a captive bolt is an acceptable method of STUNNING. It’s intent is to stun an animal not kill them so that the animal can be bled out.
In theory, I guess it works but as the video from the CHDC PROVED a great many of the horses that slid down into the stun box still showed evidence of being conscious when they were pulled into the butchering room. Numerous times the shooter was seen going into the butchering room and coming back into the stunning area with a captive bolt pistol of a different calibre than the one used initially. He was seen to hose off large amounts of blood of it so we can only presumet that he had to go into the butchering area to ‘finish the job’ as it were.
Perhaps the plant that you worked at had a 100% stunning rate. If it did, and its doubtful when dealing with horses, then maybe you should have them get in touch with the people at the Canadian plant and give them lessons. Also, it was noted that the captive bolt that was being used was probably defective which had the shooters POUNDING it against the horses’ heads. One time, the bolt got stuck in the conscious horse’s head. Nice work, eh?
really Daphne!!! you are sure about that? What is your big deal about “SHOUTING” at everyone. Whatever happened to having an opinion? If that is the case why do horses have to be stunned several times to render them unconscious? Check out the video http://www.defendhorsescanada.org/lpn.html WARNING: Video is very graphic.
that was taken in the Quebec slaughter house where one horse had to be stunned 11 times!!! Would you like someone to start dismembering you if you were just stunned not dead!! What about Mexico?? Do you think they even stun them there??
So you feel if a person can’t afford to put a horse down with chemical euthanasia…they should not own one. What about the people who have lost jobs and cant even sell a horse? Should the horse and the problem just magically disappear? Problems dont disappear, they have to be dealt with, and if a person should find themselves in a bad financial position, they should have an reasonable outlet for the sake of the horse and for the owner. If the horse needs to be put down, the owner should have OPTIONS. No one ever said every horse should go to slaughter, but a person should have the right to decide to send one or not to send one. If the Anti people have it there way there will be thousands of horses surviving on public lands or on the taxpayers dollar. Isnt is bad enough we have people surviving on the Gov for food and money? People need an outlet for the bad situations our country is in. If you own horses, and you lost your income tomorrow, you might be able to swing things for a bit..but what happens 6 months from then? or a year? Very few people are buying horses right now..people are even trying to give them away and people are not taking them. So they are not wanted. An outlet is needed because the shelters are full to the gills with horses, good horses and otherwise. I feel bad for horse owners who find themselves up against a rock and a hard place and the horse is the one left to starve to death. It is not right and it’s not fair for the animal to starve. That is what the pro side is about. We want these horses to get a fair shake at life, and if it does not work out for them for what ever reason, they should have a quick, painless, instant, death and their body be used for something good instead of being put in a landfill somewhere to contaminate the soil and water with the barbiturates that are in their bodies.
Excuse me…where did I say that ‘if you can’t afford to put your horse down with chemical euthanasia you shouldn’t own one’?? I said humane euthanasia which includes a bullet which costs what…less than a dollar?? ALL horses are wanted by someone and if somebody has lost their job and can’t afford to keep it, BEFORE they start to NOT feed it (so they justify that this is what happens to horses IF we can’t slaughter them if we can’t afford to keep them)they should look for a replacement home, not keep the horse until it’s skin and bones or turn it out to finish starving to death! How can you put a $$ on a companion animal that trusts you to take care of it no matter what? A reasonable ‘outlet’ for the horse is NOT inhumane torture and death in a slaughterhouse! A reasonable ‘outlet’ for the owner should be to be a responsible owner, NOT take the ‘easy’ way out by way of sending the poor soul to be slaughtered by people who cynically wave goodbye to the horse after they have delivered not only 1 or 11 captive bolts to their heads! WHEN we anti-slaughter horse activists stop the slaughter, you say there will be thousands or horses SURVIVING (you have that word right) on public lands on taxpayers money. OMG..really? Your kidding right? If the breeders would stop over-breeding there wouldn’t be an influx of ‘unwanted’ horses. They, the breeders, are the ones who are bringing these horses into the slaughter pipeline. If they stop over-breeding and have a planned market for their foals (and NOT slaughter) there wouldn’t be such an over abundance of horses. The pro-slaughter is about making $$ from companion animals when they’ve used them up. Being tortured to death is NOT a fair ‘shake’ at life!!! There is nothing quick, painless and instant about the slaughtering of horses!!! Watch the videos if you can stomach them and then try to tell me how quick and painless it is! Do you mean that by using their contaminated with barbituates bodies for food for humans is better than burying them? I sure wouldn’t wish that upon anyone I love and care about do you??
Horse slaughter is still available to those who are in a bad spot now and horses are still getting neglected and abandoned. Many Rescues are moving horses, not all are full. I know many people who have taken in horses to help their friends and neighbors. So reaching out is what needs to be done. National Equine Resource Network out of CA is now working to help horse owners in trouble contact a safe haven for their horse. It can be done.
Also, I as a horse owner have a back up plan for my horse and that is what is needed, a back up plan before bad things happen. If you are in an area where a vet is not immediately available you must be the humane person then and relieve the animal of its suffering. Its funny, if in a situation you do what you must like it or not and taking your beloved animals life to stop his suffering is one of those situations. Sometimes, time is not available so you have to stand up and do the right thing. But sending a horse to slaughter is not the right thing anytime. It is only money that drives horse slaughter, not compassion.
R-e-a-l-l-y? They have the right to send a financial burden to the slaughter house because times are tough?
They eat dogs in China. Shall we extend this “right” to dog owners so that they get a little cash in a financial pinch?
Plain and simple. Pro Slaughter activists are losers. They want someone else to pay for their horse when it is no longer useful to them. However, unfortunately, if we ALLOW them to succeed, we AMERICA will be paying for them. I bet if we took a poll on this group they are the ones NOT PAYING CHILD SUPPORT. And yes, sorry i have to be that BLUNT. But, the people i have met during this debate are exactly those type of people. They made their bed, they need to LIE in it!
No matter what it takes Long live the horses! And they are WORTH SAVING, every last one of them.
Suzanne’s comment was great. I agree with the whole article. All horses have owners and the pro slaughter people spend more $$ on their new saddle or their AQHA reining competition than they would on feeding their horse or putting their horse down humanely. Loved all of what you said- it is SO TRUE!
OH so you think we DON”T feed our horses or put them down humanely you do. Well little carolannlocks lets just show you shall we. 3 of my horses are in the ground. #1- died on the colic surgery table- YEP we hated her so much we sent her to a vet to have surgery. If you don’t understand sarcastic talk then please try to keep up. This mare was raised, bred and loved by myself, my 11 yr old daughter and my husband. THis was THEIR horse her soul mate, his steer wrestling mare. She died of a ruptured stomach on the table after a week of staying with the vet to reverse a impaction colic.
#2- roping mare that I bred, raised trained has points on. Broke her fetlock in the pasture playing with her pasture mates. 6 months of vet visits and casts could not fix it. She was put down at the farm.
#3-my stud that I was given as a yearling. Was given 4 weeks of vet visits to heal a kidney infection. Freak accident, neck got broke in his stall while cast, we SHot him in the head, after finding out the vet could not get there to put him down for 2 hrs.
NOW horse #1 was 8 ,#2 was 13, #3 was 10. They all had a long time and had more time BUT the good lord called them home. NOW you say we don’t put them down humanely PROOF we do.
now you say we don’t FEED them, good god lady do you understand in order for a horse to actually do his/her job and do it well they have to be fed? therefore we spend MORE money then you WISH you could on the BEST FEED, the best hay, the BEST supplements. I spend more on my horses FEED then i do for food for myself.
Just because we are pro slaughter, understand that it set the bottom dollar for the horse market, WHICH would make horse abuse and neglect less in the country, because the higher priced the horse, the less willy joe down the rd who lives on welfare could NOT afford that horse, makes for less horse neglect.
TRUST me the PRO slaughter ppl take better care of our horses then most ppl do, because they have a JOB to do for us, wether thats a show, rodeo, barrel race, working on a ranch, taking a child for a ride, whatever it is. we take very well care of our horses.
You all think thats its EVIL to make any money with our horses, you think its EVIL to sell said horse to another person, you think its EVIL that we don’t keep that horse for life no matter what happens-sickness, death, etc.
Guess what…we are already paying for them. The rescues are getting money from the Gov to help support them…it’s all tax deductible right?
Where does tax money come from..you and I and every American who pays taxes. What do you think will save American tax dollars? Paying for inspectors…or paying for thousands of rescues and the horses they have in them?
Alicia complaining about horse rescues being able to give a tax recwipt to donors? really.They are trying to clean up the mess left by the major horse breeders who breed strickly on the hope that they will get a million dollar horse if they breed enough. Obviously you are not aware of the fact that all the organizations that Sue Wallis or Dave Duqette are involved in are non profits and they also issue tax receipts to their donors. How much money do you think they funnel out of the tax pool? Big agriculture also is able to operate many parts of their industry under tax free status. Leaving the tax payer on the hook for suppling the money for things like education, roads, etc. Just to start horse slaughter back in the US is estimated to be 5 million dollars, that is money that will be taken OUT of the budget, taken out of being able to inspect the food that Americans eat, to support foreign markets where THEY make the profit. What does the US get well talk to Paula Bacon former mayor of Kaufman Texas if you want a clear picture of the “benefits” of horse slaughter to a community. Look into the tax benfits these industries get, taken directly out of YOUR pocket before you complain about the rescues who would like nothing better than to have no horses to rescue, but that is never going to happen because SLAUGHTER is part of the PROBLEM NOT the SOLUTION!
Since when have you ever seen an animal rescue, other than a humane society, get any kind of money from the government to run their establishment? In order for you to get a tax receipt, they must be registered as a charity. The benefit is NOT to them but to the person donating the money…seriously, do your research.
Now how can we have champion horses if we don’t feed them? also Dr. grandin is in the process of designing a state of the art equin processing plant for the state of WY. You all know this it has been going around the internet for weeks now,ive seen it posten on alot of fb pages,pro and anti. both. The anti’s droped the ball, you all were to buisy sending hate mail and bashing Sue wallis. You are not wanting to use your tax dollars to fund horse processing, but you think we should use our tax dollars to fund the care of the so-called wild mustangs till the day they die,you all think its fine to take the BLM to court every time they turn around costing us more of our tax dollars. You think that we should use our tax dollare to fund HSUS and thier horse rescues they want to bulid. This in my opinion is a wast of our money, processing horses for food is not.
Daphne,,these anti’s are just showing thier true colors and people will soon understand what they are truly all about.Let them keep talking,it just helps our side and lets others know just how much these people don’t know about livestock or horses in general.
I have talked to alot of people and they do not want slaughter plants back in the USA and will not eat horsemeat. They were not raised to eat they are companions and friends buddies and they do have feelings go see War Horse and you will see. Slaughter is cruel inhumane and a they do not deserve to die that way, why can’t they have their life they have earned it in many ways!!
I will be the voices of the horses that don’t have one! NO to horse slaughter it is inhumane and cruel and you people that have horses and say we need slaughter have no feelings. There is always a home for them and people that really care about them. NO TO HORSE SLAUGHTER!!!!
Daphne… Wow, it about all I can say. So bitter and apparently so young, what a shame. Be that as it may… Let’s think for a minute about deregulation since the “farmers” amoung you here seem to think it’s wonderful. What I think of is the Savings and Loan debacle in the 80’s. I think of the complete thrashing the 90’s took thanks to all the Computer Guru’s inflating claims on the Dot Commers… I think of the Housing Bubble and total collapse of the housing market. I also think of BP/Gulf Oil Spill along with thinking of the Fracking going on right now out west and wondering when Yellowstone is going to erupt and make this conversation a totally mute point.
The problem being that Man is, in a lot of cases, easy corruptable, greedy, immoral and lacking ethics. It makes some among us come up with some really dumb ideas and in turn make bad decisions. Therefore, regulations are put in place so nobody hurts themselves, or others, in their process of life. Clearly, they’re not always effective, but at least the thought is there…
That being said, we can easily see the need for extending some protection into our every day lives in the form of Property Law. There are a lot of laws that have to do with property. They say you can’t just dump your appliances at the side of the road when you remodel your kitchen, because, guess what? People would!!! They say it’s illegal to burn your house down to collect insurance money – because…. All together now – people WOULD. So, we can’t make people smart but we can give them some boundaries. We can also do that for the animals. It should not be permitted to freely and inhumanely abuse and slaughter horses. There are already plenty of laws on the books protecting their welfare, let’s protect their lives!! They clearly need it, based on the comments on this article. Why is it perfectly acceptable to have to be responsible for your refrigerator but ridiculous to be expected to be responsible for an animal which you procured, be it by purchase, gift or creation? You’re not concerned about being told what to do with some items but are very concerned about others? I’d think you’d want to be more concerned about a life than a frig, but maybe you really like your beer?
As far as what to do with the horses… Let’s see. I’ve listed about 10 options above. I’d also venture a guess that when the slaughter market is finally closed people are actually going to think about the lives they create a little more since they won’t have easy access to (or reward for) making them disappear. I’d hope that if we staggered the law in and allowed time for the animals in the pipeline at the time to be either rescued or, sadly, slaughtered, we’d level the playing field for responsible ownership. When rescues aren’t actively funding auction (ie: slaughter) rescues, there’d be plenty of resources available to deal with the TRUE rescue cases, people who have hit hard times, etc.
Why does the pro-slaughter sect cling so fiercely to the idea that we MUST allow the slaughter of horses in order to be good stewards? We don’t. You can soften your stance, it’s ok. We don’t HAVE TO KILL THEM!! The sky will not fall and it won’t solve the problems plaguing the markets! That theology is completely false, is has no basis in fact and we could easily find better ways to deal with our industry if we were not caught in the perpetual debate about slaughter! It’s totally redundant and does nothing to help the Equine Industry as whole or the equines specifically.
The time is now. Let’s just do it. We’ve never given it a try and it really deserves at least a try. Let’s end slaughter and support and nurture our Equine Industry back to good health, just like we do with the victims of neglect and starvation. The horses never look back, neither should we…
Amen Suzanne.
BRAVO!!!! Well said and it is TRUTH and FACT! Nice job Suzanne!!!
fact HA HA HA what fact, I have YET to read any facts from you all. lets see FACT number 1- you all have FIVE years to do something about all these UNWANTED horses and yet still there are horses going to slaughter in mexico where they just stab them over and over and over in the neck, at least here they are shot, either with a gun or captive bolt. FACT #2- horses that have NO HOME are unwanted no matter how you look at it.
FACT#3- you CAN place your unwanted appliances at the end of your drive way or curb because ITS CALLED trash and 90% of the time ppl are looking for scrap metal. There is no law that says you CAN NOT do that.
FACT #4- NO ONE said YOU have to send your horses to slaughter, BUT you have NO RIGHT to take away someone who wants to. THAT is THEIR HORSE< THEIR PROPERTY, they can do anything they want to ( now read carefully here folks) JUST so they are not starving, neglecting or abusing said animal, so if that person wants to take that horse to an auction they have every right to, if they want to take that horse to the slaughter house, they have every right to.
and here is a big FACT Fact #5- YOU ARE not rescueing a horse that YOU PAY MONEY FOR. You rescue a horse that is being starved and is seized, you rescue a horse is need of being saved. BUYING a horse from a KB is NOT rescuing them, buying a horse from a auction or sale barn is NOT rescueing them. IF YOU PAY MONEY for said horse YOU BOUGHT IT you DID NOT rescue it.
and you call me biter and young. I may only be 36 yrs old BUT let me tell ya , i graduated with TOP honors from college, have been asked to do many things in my area that deals with horses,have been around horses since i was born. So don't tell me I have no clue about horses or anything else that deals with them. I LIVE BREATH DAILY horses and everything about them.
You troll on sites and media pages looking for a fight with anti-slaughter activists and you love to get into an argument with whomever will take a poke with you…maybe you should quit listening to what all the pro-slaughterers are telling you what to think and say because YOU my dear will NEVER win the battle!
Boy if you listen to Slaughter House Sue Wallis one would think that every Native American tribe in the US wants horse slaughter. But read this article and see the truth of how the horse is respected.We all should take lessons from our Native American citizens.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/01/06/american-indians-offer-programs-for-horses-that-treat-the-sacred-animals-as-a-way-of-life-70636
Well as always, a short period of time and it breaks down to the pro slaughter side yelling, ranting, and well speaking for itself, just as one of their leadrs did the other night, as I recall the moderator had to yell over top of that person to get them to use respect for the other side. It is the big bully mentality. So again, since as of yet, I have not seen the answer to this, just what are you all going to do when the following happen, 1. The defunding lanuage gets put back in, 70% of americans are opposed to horse slaughter, election year. 2. We pass a ban on horse slaughter her, plus export ban? ??What are you all that would be you breeders going to do with those extra horses? You see then we rescues, please go read what that means in Websters, then no longer have to be over stressed, your horse that doesn’d sell, guess what, I love this, it goes home from the auction with you, those starved, dumped, unwanted horses, well we all know the story there. So lets ask again all you pro’s, what are you going to do when it is banned for good, not here, not export, nada, zip no how no way. what??? And for the record your civil right to do what you want comes with a price, it is called be responsible, when you are not, well the Govt, steps in and says, bad child, makes rules, and since you all cant see to play nice, you will soon see those rules. If I was you, since all those rescues have the right to refuse, you might want to be nice, they may say, no, I am not helping you, you never know!!!!
I love it how you all say my heart is COLD. SO im to take in as many horses as I can without the money to feed the extra horses. correct is that you way of thinking.
the 7 horses i have and own are well taken care of. I have NO ROOM for anymore. Just because my eyes are OPEN and are not closed like yours are is the differnce between us. Sorry IF I don’t type as well as you all do, my computer thinks my spell check is a virus and will not let it do anything, and i tend to type faster then my fingers can keep up. DON”T LIKE it Don’t read it.
I love it how you all attack me and surpising no one else. funny how that works, either you hate me, or are jealous that I own horses and they are well cared for OR you hate me because I have breed and show horses.
If you all think that the horses needed saved, then you better hook up them trailers and go find ALL THE FREE, unwanted horses out there because you have NO DAM solutions on how to fix the MESS you started in the first place. YES thats right, you all anti’s shut down slaughter, and now horses have NO VALUE, are being staved , negleclted and abused because if their owners take them to the sale barn , they THE OWNERS end up paying the sale barn to sell their horses. GEE and you wonder why we are pissed.
See what I’m sayin’??? It really is a shame. I’m sorry Daphne. I hope that you will experience enlightenment some day but I can’t spend more time on you, I have more than a dozen horses to care for and frankly, they’re a lot nicer to talk to than you. I would wish you luck with your quest but instead I will work tirelessly to ensure your failure.
Your ‘horses are starving because the US doesn’t have slaughter plants’ arguement is absurd. The option to sell or give a horse to a kill buyer continues to exist. If your arguement had any validity then there would be absolutely no starving horses in the US or Canada. Any horse owner who sits and thinks ‘gee, if only there was a slaughter plant next door I wouldn’t starve my horses’ should immediately be banned from ever owning any animal.
With regard to statements about bute, they are, again, absurd. Due do bute being a known carcinogen, it’s banned from use in ALL food producing animals including beef and pork. There are absolutely no studies in existance on potential withdrawal times for bute used in equines destined for slaughter. While detectable phenylbutazone may eventually clear a horses system, its metabolites, such as Oxyphenbutazone are stored indefinately. It’s this particular metabolite that is known to cause cancer, cardiac problems, etc. NONE of the past or current testing of meat samples is directed at Oxphenbutazone.
Slaughter has absolutely nothing to do with property rights. We only have the right to own property. This right does not allow us to dispose of property in any manner that we wish.
With regard to cost of euthanasia and disposal your estimate of $1,000 or more is ridiculous. $1,000 will cover transporting a horse across the country. In Ohio you can take your horse to OSU or Findlay for euthanasia and disposal. There are also multiple licensed livestock removal companies and rendering plants so again, you seem to know very little about the topic.
The fact remains that only 1% of the equines that die each and every year are slaughtered meaning the owners of the remaining 99% don’t ship to slaughter. Those of us who are responsible horse owners should not have to carry the financial burden of a passport system as required in the EU for slaughter bound horses.
Again, with animal ownership comes responsibility, including investigating the costs of care and the cost of providing a humane death PRIOR to taking ownership and said responsibility.
ps. Please post the email you claim you receiveded from the FDA along with contact information for the sender. The banning of bute from all US food producing animals has nothing to do with how an animal is classified (i.e. companion or livestock).
Should read ‘received from the FDA’…need more coffee
Actually Daphne, we don’t want you to take in any more horses because if slaughter houses open they just might find their way there. After all you are close friends with Slaughterhouse Sue. Please for the sake of horses don’t take in anymore. Let them go to where they might have a second chance to a good life.
Wow Daphne….hate you and are jealous of you!!! Not in the slightest. I own 3 horses myself and just had to put down my old quarter horse who was 29 after owning him for 18 years. I have made arrangements to have my other 3 put down as well when the time comes, because you see, I have owned these horses all of their lives, since they were weanlings, (one was rejected by his mare and I’ve had him since he was 3 weeks old) and I have kept these horses….not bought and sold and bought and sold more horses than I need. The problem with the unwanted horses comes from the breeders….it can’t be said enough!! If people stopped breeding indiscriminately, there wouldn’t be so many horses. I have heard so many times of someone looking for the perfect horse and keeps on breeding and breeding until they supposedly find one. And yes, I have been around many show/breeding barns and one of the main source of income for them was….you guessed it….breeding!!
actually heather the horses that I have I HAVE RAISED. the oldest horse I had was my barrel mare that i seen being foaled and lived to be 23 . she had more yrs in her but had a massive heart attack, test later reviled she had a defect,(amazing she was a barrel horse and had the heart attack while standing still), I have ALL but 2 foals of hers( 2 i sold, one made it to a breed world show, the other is a pasture pet), her first foal was just put down ON MY farm by a vet(never again) due to a broken leg, her second died ont he surgery table during colic surgery, her thrid is my barrel horse now, her 4 yr old is my sons. MY horses do NOT leave my farm unless Someone will pay me what they are worth, they have been appraised between 3500.00( for the contest pony) to 35,000 for my husband 4yr old. amazing you all think im such a horse killer, and have no feeling for my horses. TRUST me when i had to make the choice to send my mare to colic surgery i didn’t even bat and eye and paid for it in full5500.00 dollars up front, or 6500.00 to try and heal my other mares broken leg. The last horse i lost was my stud , freak accident broke his neck in his stall. I spent over 4500.00 in vet bills in 4 weeks before he broke his neck. SO i can afford to take care of my horses and put them down when needed, BUT i do NOT have the ROOM to take any more, you know not enough acreage/
Daphne, you sound like a hypocrite saying that you support horse slaughter but that you won’t send your own companion horses to slaughter. Many, many of the horses that go to slaughter are not there because that’s where their owner wanted them to be. You know many are there because someone talked a suffering owner out of them or they were stolen out right. Why is it OK for someone else’s much loved horse to go to a cruel and inhumane death in a horse horror slaughter house but yet it’s not good enough for yours?
Just wanted to clarify the statement about putting large appliances on the curb site. Most areas have certain days of the year where people can do this, other areas have stickers that must be purchased if leaving a large appliance for pick up, some require that the home owner call and actually arrange a specific day for pickup. So no you cannot legally just put the old stove out on the curb any old time you like. The neighbours do not want to see this and that is why laws have been put into place. In most areas you can receive a fine for doing so. In other words the owner has to be responsible for its disposal and pays for it either through the purchase of the sticker or through the taxes they pay.
actually in ohio you can set said jumk applaince at the curb the day or two before you trash pickup. IT is NOT against the law to do this, 99% of the time you do NOT have to even call and tell them. THE only thing you have to make sure you have is what is called large item pickup, 99% of the trash pickups allow you 1 or 2 large items a month, so yes it is NOT against the law in ohio to set your junk appliance at the end of the curb for trash pickup DUHHHHHHHHH.
For all those pro’s out there that think slaughter sets the bottom dollar think again. Our economy has tanked just like the US has. We have three slaughter houses up and running here in Canada and the price for horses here is not a whole hell of a lot compared to what you use to get. You’d be lucky to get $700 for a well broke horse at an auction. I have gone to many local auctions and horses sell for as low as 50 bucks and no higher then maybe $800 if your trying to outbid the KB. The economy sets the price and so does supply and demand the more there are the less it cost to buy one. The less there are the more it cost to purchase one. Simple economics people. Slaughter is an outlet for people to dump their responsibilities and extra stock. If you cant afford to take responsibility for a large animal in life and death you shouldnt have one. I own two horses and one was rescued from slaughter a healthy and sane three year old registered solid paint. There goes their old lame and crippled argument out the window. Slaughter is not the answer. SAY NO TO SLAUGHTER!!!! Very good letter Tanja. Im going to see my horses now for some therapy time Away from all this talk of horse slaughter. So glad mine will be loved forever and never have to worry about getting shipped for slaughter. Have a good day all
Amanda: Do you know Canadians who actually eat horse meat?
Not where I live do they eat horse meat and I live in Alberta which has the Bouvry slaughter plant. I have run into a few people that say they have eaten it but those that have said they have are the older farmers and ranchers who were around after world war one and during world war two but say they havent eaten it in years (as in since the late 70’s early 80’s amount of years) due to the medications they have given to their horses and are worried that the meat may not be safe if what they have given their horses is in the horses that are being slaughtered. Other then that I know no one who eats or is even interested in eating horse meat myself included!!!
Unfortunately in some areas of Canada horse meat is eaten, mostly in the Province of Quebec. Some grocery stores even carry it in the meat dept. I live in British Columbia and some restaurants in Vancouver serve it. Also Canada has just changed its slaughter laws to allow horses to be slaughtered along with other species, and the meat no longer has to be kept separate.I am not yet sure what the implications of this are. Here is a link to an article about this. http://cynthiaderrico.com/2011/12/alert-write-your-mp-now/?mid=56
Also Canada just gave an INTEREST FREE loan of 2.5 million dollars to the same company that runs the slaughter plant that was exposed for all of the violations. Wonder if we will ever see a penny of that money paid back?
Just called SWACO Solid Waste Authority of Ohio and spoke with a very nice young lady called Ashley and I was told that you CANNOT just leave large appliances out at the curb for pickup. You must call a Bulk pick up company to have your large appliances picked up. So Daphne if you have a garbage company that does that service I would be using it because chances are it will not last long. Most municipal dumps now charge fees for dumping off large appliances as well. No free lunch any longer for most of the country.
well gee then I guess RUMPKE and Waste management and the one I currently use are ALL against the law now are they not. I THINK rumpke has been in the trash business for over 30 plus yrs and they will STILL pick up large applicance like stoves, frigs (IF the feron is taken out), small freezers if they are sat beside the trash can IF that customer has a large pickup on their contract. Same with the company I use now, and they have been in business for 10 yrs. Hell just last week rumpke picked up my neighbors stove and the neighbor behind me frig that my hubby helped take out the feron from. GUESS they were wrong in doing it. FUNNY thing when you DON”T LIVE IN OHIO and try to tell us who do and have been here for YRS, actually KNOW THE PERSON IN CHARGE at rumpkee and tell us that we can do just that. DO NOT try to best me because you WILL NOT and CAN NOT win.
LOL… That this conversation has gone from horse slaughter to whether or not you can dump you refrigerator is just fine with me!! Keep on trying to make sense Daphne, maybe someday you will! Now, that I feel free to wish you luck with. Too MUCH!
It’s pretty funny how Daphne has an answer for everything. If she doesn’t have a dozen people who give their horse bute and they eat the meat and don’t die to the she slaughtered horses herself when she was in college story. She knows a million people in this world and every one has a story that conveniently fits whatever situation she wants to address. She is too funny! No sense talking with her, she will just make up some story to fit the bill and then call you names to boot. I have better things to do then try to reason with her. I’m with you Robert M!!
Frankly, my dear, after your ridiculous claim about taking “Horse Serum Insulin” you have ZERO credibility. ZERO.
Oh so you cannot just leave it out as you like, you have to have it in your contract! Exactly what I said earlier, people cannot just leave large appliances out willy nilly, and if they do it is against the law. Please do not manipulate information to make it look like you are right, it only makes people question how much else you say is “tweeked” to support your side of the discussion.
I live in Ohio, and have lived here since 1977. Rumpke has always been our waste management service.
Rumpke DOES NOT pick up large appliances. Either the old ones are removed by the delivery men of the replacement appliance, or we have to pay someone to remove the old one. That’s why so many appliances are on the front porches of homes in the poorer areas.
What does this have to do with horses?
It has nothing to do with horses other than to help in exposing Daphne and other pro slaughter people telling half truths to support their position that slaughter is humane,necessary and good for the horse. This started in an earlier comment by Suzanne “Why is it perfectly acceptable to have to be responsible for your refrigerator but ridiculous to be expected to be responsible for an animal which you procured, be it by purchase, gift or creation?”
And Daphne’s response”FACT#3- you CAN place your unwanted appliances at the end of your drive way or curb because ITS CALLED trash and 90% of the time ppl are looking for scrap metal. There is no law that says you CAN NOT do that.”
Daphne, I will ask you one more time, and again if I have to as well as the rest of you proslaughter folks> What are you going to do when we get it banned forever?
Then ask you directly, do you get paid per argument, or per response you get? Also, as you have been asked, please provide proof, your email contact information, on another thread when you questioned the EU rules I posted the direct letter from the EU, it talked about the wild horses, the domestic horses, and so forth, so kindly do so for your argument!
Joyce Moore is correct, we the horse owners that do not want slaughter, not that I belive it is going to happen, either way, are going to end up paying to passport our horses, if you say, you wont that works to, since if you dont by six months they are excluded anyways, so how about that for your civil rights, does that very passport not infringe. Now, trot on off to who ever and work on no passport, cause if you all jump on that band wagon, you will see slaughter slip sliping away. Have you ever heard careful what you wish for?
Let me just add that I would say that the 70% against horse slaughter is what we see here too. Say no to horse slaughter!
Anyone who thinks this is OK, is either mentally unbalanced or is planning on making money from it.
NO TO HORSE SLAUGHTER FOREVER WHERE ARE YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA
There is only one place in the world where they have truly humane euthanasia for slaughter…that is in Sweden and Switzerland. Their animals don’t have a chance to feel the pain our animals do here in North America. Maybe if we had a slaughter house like they do that is completely humane, where the animals have a last bath, are fed and watered until it is their turn to walk the line, and have the peaceful passing that they should be allowed to have, then I wouldn’t be opposed to slaughter of any animal. I won’t lie and say I’m a vegan cause I do eat meat, I just feel guilt over the way the animal had to go for me to have a meal. I pray for the life of that animal before I consume my meal and offer up a thanks to them for passing so that I may sustain nourishment. Seriously, pro or anti, it doesn’t matter. We should all be ashamed of our respective countries for making us so bloody greedy that we would allow this to go on. Until we can provide that humane passing for the horses and other animals, we shouldn’t be allowed to slaughter them PERIOD.
The perfect death for horses you describe will never happen in a plant opened here in the US. Those who slaughter horses will not take the time to kill horses humanely in the US because horse slaughter is all about money. American’s do not eat horse so the only reason to slaughter horses is for the money from the foreign market. No factory farm plant cares anything for the animals they raise to slaughter. Deaths are build into their business plan as is the deaths of 1% of wild horses in the BLM round ups. So if you think humane horse slaughter is possible if plants open here in the US I got news for you and anyone else who thinks it could be humane, the greed of the business will never let that happen. Even those in the business know this. That is why they have to play all these dirty tricks to keep their business from being seen by the public because they know that 70% of the public would be outraged and they would have a very hard time getting their business past the public comments hearings. It is going to be a very tough sell.
People DO eat horse meat in the US. 70 operations have been shut down since 2008 and people have gone to jail!
Jennifer I was not talking about illegal slaughter of horses. Florida has worked very hard to shut them down. American’s still do not eat horse meat nor do our pets. You cannot find it in the grocery store so it is not the meat of choice. The people eating horse meat eat it illegal as it is still not inspected in the US. Yes you can eat your own horse but it is illegal to sell that meat. You are really angry aren’t you?? You would just love to get a horse meat burger right? Or are you just mad that others question your horse slaughter stance?
You said “Americans do not eat meat”. They do. You can insult me all you want but it doesn’t change the facts. Nope if I wanted a horse burger I could go get a free starving horse within miles of my house and shoot it. What I want is for horses to stop suffering and starving to death. So I guess by your logic I could say you are really angry right now aren’t you? I guess you just want horses to suffer abuse and neglect so you can watch them die in one of the most horrific ways possible. That must be want you want you horse torturer. But see that isn’t true. Both of us care deeply for horses. But you need to learn to debate in a way that is actually productive.
From what I hear from those who have shut down the illegal slaughter houses in Florida they are not American’s who eat horse meat slaughtered illegally. Show me your proof American’s eat horse meat legally.
And I will fight for the large number of horses that face suffering in slaughter houses since I have not seen any starving in fields. If I do see starving or abused horses then I will do what ever I can to save them. Including seeing if hay or money donations will help the owner. If you see them starving then you should be making some calls to save them. Supporting horse slaughter will not save those horses you see starving. They would not be starving if the owner was going to send them to slaughter since slaughter is available and the owner has not sent them. A horse sent to slaughter has no chance of being saved but a horse starving in a field has a chance that some caring soul will save them.
Sorry but I do not see where you said I insulted you.
I wouldn’t believe what was on AQHA website on a bet. They encourage over breeding and registering foals to fill their coffers. The AQHA along with the Thoroughbred industry hires Lobbying firms to work against any bills introduced in congress that will ban horse slaughter such as H.R.2966 and S.1176. The racing industry so far has paid a lobbying firm $50,000.00 to work against both of these bills. Alpine Group, INC Senate ID 1171-1092 and House ID 317490076 is the one the The National Thoroughbred Racing Association and one other one is $9000.00 paid by Beltex senate ID 6848-455 and House ID 316030029 which was one of the plants shutdown in 2007. This is one of the plants that polluted a whole town when it was shut down and now it is slobbering to start killing our horses again. Neither of these two slaughter plants paid any taxes or fines the whole time they were in operation.
ok for one- I DON”T TAKE IN HORSES< I RAISE THEM. The last horse I took in was a long yearling from a lady who gave him to me. he is a pmu foal. He is NOW a 9 yr old gelding that LOVES his job, roping cattle and running thru a obstacle course while hubbys shoots a gun. (mounted shooting)
I have 7 horses, NONE OF WHICH leave me farm UNLESS there is a buyer that will pay their price. My horses are appraised from 3500.00 to 25,000.00 THEY ONlY leave if the buyer has the CASH. My next foal WILL BE in 2013. making my horses total to 8. OMG but DON"T you dare tell me that I can't buy any, sell any and make money with my horses. THEY ARE MINE and you my dear anti's are NOT allowed to buy them or even THINK about it.
I have no idea where you think I throw my horses away when im done with them, because frankley they stay at the farm for life or IF someone has the CASH for the price they are listed for. ALL MY HORSES have a price. unlike you if someone has the cash for the price they are appraised for then by golly SEE YA.
So Daphne Why are you pushing for horse slaughter and plants to go up here in the USA when there are soooooo many people against it. Horses are our friends companions and buddies why would we want them all slaughtered for people to eat. Did you answer Maries question to you?
you ask WHY i support slaughter, Because im tired of horses having no home, horses going to mexico where they are stabbed over and over with no regards of being humane. I have worked in a slaughter house, seen horses killed with ONE SHOT to the head(yes the use of a gun). I do NOT live in a world where horses are pets, pretty unicorns that fart rainbows. I live in a world where its the OWNERS CHOICE if they want to send their horse to slaughter or not. IT SHOULD NOT be your group to tell them they can’t, ITS THEIR HORSE, not yours.
By the way I have talked to so many people that don’t know about horse slaughter and they are horrified about it when I tell them.
okay so I got one for all of you, I hear all the time from the pro slaughter side, what are you going to with all the extra horses, your rescues are full, you pastures are full. Any of you have a drunk or a codependant person in you life, it is all your fault, it is all you fix it, never mind they broke it, you still are suppose to fix it. (don’t answer that is was just a ??), so here it is, heard of tough love?? My ? is this, right back at you pro slaughter person, what are you going to do when we ban slaughter, when you have done pissed off every single one of those bleeding hearts, who have a not a clue, with the rest of the long list of insults you have slung in such a short time. Just what are you going to do with them, you bred them, you foaled them, you raised them till they got put in the toss away list, not us, not the rescues, not the reserves, not the shelters, YOU, so what are you going to do with them? Ever heard the expression, your baby rock it, your horse feed it!
I am pro-slaughter. I have never bred a horse in the 30 yrs I have had horses. I have always bought younger horses (about 2 yrs old). I have bought and rehabbed horses out of the killer pen. Why do you assume that we all breed horses or are irresponsible owners. Recently I gave away a 10 yr old kid broke horse away to make sure she got a good home. She had foundered twice. We have good grass and I didn’t want to pay to hay her year round. The lady that has her now knows that I will take her back if she doesn’t want her anymore. The reason that I am pro-slaughter is that there is many people who aren’t good horse owners. They are negelcting and starving their horses because they either can’t feed them or don’t want to because they aren’t worth anything! I would assume that anyone taking the time and energy to be involved with this debate are good owners. All of us care!
I can work with this, yes you are a good person that is from my heart, even if you are pro slaughter, not looking to fight, so, here is the problem, if a parent is a bad parent does the courty allow them to keep their kids, no, they eventually get to the point they say no more kids. I for one, do not like govt regulation, I am a supporter of AG as along as it is not horses, odd yes. So if the problem is truly which it is not, the issue of bad owners, then lets deal with the bad owners, lets stop the cycle, breeders, work with rescues, not against, rescues work with the breeders not against, instead of rescues running around buying horses out of kill pens at prices run up just becasue they are there, let them have them, cut out the middleman. And for the record, I did studies, not any method, but just general, if you ask most of the people who starve horses it is several factors, fear of slaughter at the top of the list, lack of funds to feed the horse, or just flat out stupid. If rescues did not have to run all around saving all the ones from the kill pens, saving all the owner surrenders, they would could help more. with no slaughter as an option, the market will stabilize, it will have no choice, rescues will no longer have to go to the auctions to spend over 75% of their budget to save a horse, the owner will be stuck with it. And for the record, slauhgter houses do not take old, skinny, horses, just like cattle they want fat sweet meat. See where that whole concept takes us, for years, the horse breeders and horse rescues have ahd this battle, we all are worse then the political machine, no middle road. I like the middle, here is a tidy fact, if the rescues stopped going to the auctions, and stopped buying the horses, then the kill buyers would have no competitions, just where do you thnk the price woudl go then if only kill buyers showed up. Rescues are what has kept the price up as it is, yet they get attacjed the most. Find me a breeder willing to work with us, a big one, I bet you can’t, find me one who will stand up and say no more slaughter for my herd, i will do out of love of the horse the right thing, i know one, i have worked with them over the last three years, guess what not a single horse to slaughter, he is making big bucks, his foals are getting better and better every year he did two things, breeds for quality, not quanity, and works with a rescue to place those who are not “perfect”, guess what the tax deduction is still there, as a charity not a loss, loss says lousy business man, donating to charity says wow look at all the money i make, and I help humanity. Find me one more, who will say that mare tossed a shitty colt with that stud, lets not do that again, same mare same stud bred to different dam sire next year still sh@@ colt, guess what do not breed them again, done, send her him to rescue, the line is lousy, they toss icky colts, it is not rocket science.
I appreciate the time it took to write your response. I gotta get the kids to bed. I will write you later. Thanks
So if there is no horse slaughter, people like my neighbors will keep “rescuing” free horses that others can no longer keep (due to job loss, health, or possibly just stupidity). They have many horses turned out in the woods behind their house slowly starving to death while their kids ride them until they can’t go anymore…and they brag how much they love these horses…how they rescued them, and have no reason to change a thing when offered advice for properly feeding them. These people are very sad when the horses become ill.
Unfortunately no one from our humane society seems to realize the difference between the bones sticking out on top of a dairy cow and the bones sticking out on top of a horse.
oh and someone asked for proof of where ppl eat horse meat legally in the US. well lets see, i can name about 5 ppl in OR that do, I DO as my family does, , My friends family does(this is where I get my horse meat from. he GIVES it to me, so he is within the law), I know of about 30 more ppl that eat horse meat. I know of 2 local butcher shops that have stated they WILL carry horse meat in their shops. IT is LEGAL to eat horse meat ANYWHERE in the usa, what is illegal is to sell it YET. see key word YET.
You ask us(the pro side) what we are gonna do, You are the ones that created this mess. YEP you did it. You banned slaughter, so instead of ppl selling that horse for 300 at the sale barn, they have to sell it for 50 dollars, and then half the time the KB doesn’t want it cause they would not make anything on said horse. There are FAR more ppl out there that are for slaughter then against because they see the big picture. 100,000 unwanted horses with no where to go, rescues are full, not enough homes, these horses have to go somewhere, and I know of lots of ppl that can load up the loose horses they come across, or the sale barns that have horses in their pens because they were a no sale and NO ONE wants them,. We can ship them ALL to your guys houses so YOU can take care of them.
NO ONE and I mean NO ONE should tell another person what they can or can’t do with their property, unless they are abusing, or neglecting them. Taking them to a sale barn to sell, or selling the directly to the slaughter house is NOT abusing or neglecting them. I would rather see horses being utlized instead of just sitting and starving or rotting in the ground.
Oh Daphane, you little horse killer and horse eater, there you go again saying the anti-slaughter people stopped your slaughter and have created the glut of horses. Well horse slaughter is still available if you don’t know that and there are still auctions and yet there are still starving horses. So there, you blaming the closing of US slaughter houses leading to the “unwanted” horses is just plain full of manure. The same old story from the horse eaters. I said American’s are not eating horse meat legally. And you yourself said I was RIGHT!!!
Your heart is so dead and cold, I feel sorry for you.
oh I love it how im a horse killer. lets see i have placed 3 horses in the ground. First was a 8 yr old mare that died on the suregery table, not able to utilize because of the drugs that she received during surgery, 2nd a mare that broke her leg, could not use because of the blue juice given, 3rd my stud that we shot because of his broken neck, could not utilize because of the drugs he received for 4 weeks to treat a kidney infection. I have hauled 3 horses directly to the slaughter house because they put 3 trainers in the ER, these were not my horses. So 5 horses and im a horse killer oh I LOVE IT.
as for horse eater- SURE there is NO difference in the meat except horse is leaner and actually much more healthier for ya. it is STILL LEGAL to eat horse meat in the country. ANYONE can do to the auction house, buy a horse, take it to a butcher and have it processed and eat it. Americans DO EAT horse meat legally. WHY can’t you understand that. I can help my friend kill his horse(that he raises for meat), and in return he gives me some, he never sold it to me, he GIVES it to me, just like he does to his family and other friends, nothing ILLEGAL about that. So really have no clue on where you say americans are eating horse meat illegaly because they are not.
as for my heart is dead and cold, sure whatever, i guess my dead cold heart instead of putting my stud down, should have just let him lay there and suffer correct, because i guess that is what i should have done according to you.
feel sorry for me HA HA HA HA HA HA HA-whatever. i have DONE more for thehorses in my area then you WISH you could have. I help place horses, i foster when i have to, i help go to farms to check on abused cases, im a first reponder for my area when it comes to horses, yep feel sorry for me all you want.
” American’s do not eat horse so the only reason to slaughter horses is for the money from the foreign market.” Daffy, if you could read you would see that the sentence was referring to American’s going to the store to buy it. Everyone involved in the horse slaughter issue knows that it is not against the law to kill and eat your own horse but you cannot sell horse meat in stores or to the public since horse meat is not inspected here in the US and selling it without being inspected is against the law. GET IT?
Sorry I should know that everything has to be spelled out to you since you do not comprehend things well.
By the way, Daffy, the few people that you say you know who eat horse meat or who say they would, will never make the selling of horse meat a profitable industry. Most American’s find it a disgusting act of the worst kind to eat horse meat. I’m just saying.
Yes you can eat it but you cannot sell it legally. That was my point.
“I can help my friend kill his horse” your own words! Horse Killer and Horse Eater! Cold heart indeed.
welll duhhh . so americans ARE eating horse meat legally. You said they are NOT. But they are.
and yes i do help my friend process his horses, because he DOESN”T see them as pets, they are MEAT to him. he raises a herd of 10 horses. They range in age from weanling to 5 yr olds. His 5 yr olds are the ones he processes. There is NOTHING wrong with him doing this. he also raises beef. He sees horses as LIVESTOCK to eat, not to play pretty pony with. He calls me, i go over, Ihold the horse, he shoots ONE TIME in the head. I help him hang, process the horse. NOT a dam thing wrong with that at all. NONE of his horses are given anything, they are NOT touched, they are raised just for his freezer. NOT a dam thing wrong with that at all.
Well that is just fine, however, there is a huge, I mean like HUGE, differance between your friend eating his horse, and you proslaughter people wanting my tax dollars, my countires reputation in the trade markets around the world, as well as the long list of issues that surrond horse slaughter for money. I have as much told all the pro slaughter people who have so many extra horses, go eat your horse, if cattle is so costly to buy, and horse is so cheap, why sell it for 50, eat it your self. Problem solved, we have agreed, we do not tell you to not eat your horses, you do not ask me to or my tax dollars to pay for horse slaughter. Oh and one more thing. Please provide me with the FISI that has the listed time for the medical withdraw time for all dugs given to horses. As well as answer the questions, so when slaughter is banned what are all you people going to do? You ask us all the time what are you going to do with all theses “extra starving horses” since I know and you know that is not the case, it is has always been, will always be the over breeding of breeders, they are your horses, what are you going to do with them, what are you going to do when rescues no longer have to compete with the kill buyers at auctions and you have to go pick your dumped horses back up. You see, the day is coming, slaughter will be banned for good, then you all get to rock the baby you created, I would suggest you learn to be nice to the rescues, they may be the ones who have to save your A@@, and take your horse. So again, what are you going to do with your horses? All of you Pros? I did not breed them, the rescues did not breed them, you did, so put up a plan or shut up, and get off the slaughter band wagon of SW and DD, who by the way are just as much puppets as you are. Oh and Daphne, I do know something big you dont know, so stick that one in your pipe and smoke it. Have a wonderful day!
Here is the bottom line.
The purpose of horse slaughter is to produce horse meat. People who sell horses to slaughter to it to make money. This is not about altruism.
There is not a horse owner in American who could not decide this afternoon to sell his horse at auction for x pennies on the pound knowing that that horse would go to slaughter. Of perhaps some of you with connections to kill buyers could sell your horses directly to kill buyers. That happens everywhere. Even if horse slaughter plants open in the U. S. there are no laws that prevent U. S. horses ending up in Mexican or Canadian slaughter plants. Kill buyers usually take them to the closest facility or perhaps the one where they will be hassled the least.
Anyone one of you who wants to slaughter a horse you own are not prohibited from doing that. In fact, why not just gather them all up. Pool your resources and rent a truck to deliver them to Mexico or Canada?
You know why. Because many of the countries who used to accept U. S. horse meat now know that the USDA stamp certifying that the meat is safe is false.
Daphne, I do not know why you think you are more of an expert on food safety than the FDA or that the scientists who sit at tables together to make rules for the safety of their country’s citizens about what can or cannot have been administered to the animal, but I know you obsessed with information that is irrelevant with regard to the legal requirements on horse meat imported by countries in the EU and individual countries such as Italy that have formerly imported horse meat. A stamp bearing the words Inspected and Approved by Daphne Watson is unlikely to be accepted by Ireland, England, Germany, etc. It might, however, work in some markets—not just in any involving Interstate or International commerce.
The fact that there are still horses not being properly cared for despite the existence of horse slaughter, just underscores the fact that the two are not related despite having been used as a rationalization for the existence of horse slaughter by slightly guilty feeling people who sent horses to this fate.
The equine welfare problems we have are due in large part to the refusal of the horse commodity market to recognize that they are creating more horses than there is a demand for. Anytime this happens in any market it makes prices fall. You produce too much of something the consumer doesn’t need or want, well you lose money and eat your lunch.
You can’t use the argument that Quarter Horses aren’t sound after the age of 7 because there is no horse slaughter because there is no cause effect relationship. These horses are less sound than they used to be because too many people are breeding them and breeding to many of them without understanding how to breed for specific traits or if you breed for one trait you might weaken another. So these breeders of horses no one will buy because the breeders didn’t know what they were doing won’t bring any money. Who’s fault is that? The breeders. Who should have to pay for that? The breeders. Lets find the people breeding the horses that keep breaking down, and let pay breeding fees to the rescues that are going to have to take these horses in.
Perhaps what we need are stronger regulations governing the breeding of horses. In this area, breeders have cut back production tremendously because there is no market. They have business sense, and have been in the horse business for generations.
It is not just the horse industry that is in trouble. So many people are struggling. They have gone bankrupt, lost their homes, their jobs, their health from the stress of it. The amount of human suffering in this economy cannot be underestimated. The only way to have a healthy horse market is for there to be healthy, employed people, or healthy people with an income source to take care of our horses.
Animal slaughter is for food production. Period. If the meat produced is tainted with substances harmful to human health, it should not be produced in the first place. It is unethical to produce and sell meat that we know there is evidence to suggest that a certain number of individuals, particularly children, will develop disabling and deadly illnesses if they consume this meat. Therefore, it is unethical to advocate for the production of meat that will disable and kill certain members of the population based on what is known about these substances and their metabolites within the human body.
Animal slaughter is not an answer to animal welfare issues. Horse slaughter is not a solution to horse welfare problems.
Horse slaughter is not a solution to an equine welfare problem.
never said i know everything, BUT when you ask the FDA a question and they forward you a response that STATES that ALL drugs even the BANNED drugs have a withdrawl time, it kinda makes you wonder. THe fda VEt told me that they have a website that any vet can get on, put in what drug was issued and it will give them a withdrawl period YES even for dewormers, and BUTE.
Daphne,
I do not know about the FDA vet you talked to. Did he have a name? My vet indicated that bute will leave a substance in the tissue and that it could be harmful if consumed in sufficient quantities (he did not explain how much that is). However, he also reminded me that each species metabolizes drugs differently and pointed out that the drug hemhad just injected into the leg of a large horse, would kill five cows. Like it or not, people who have been involved with the slaughter of horses, have generally shown little regard for the health and welfare of the horse or the human consumer. I am not saying that you are this way, but I am saying that people who are involved in the slaughter of horses are usually not the the most upstanding members of the communities from which they come. Even people who have sold horses for likely slaughter, ask who could do this. The point is that there is no reason to believe that kill buyers would honor a waiting period if there were a waiting period. An article in the Irish Veterinary Journal, said that giving the horse bute even one time was sufficient to cause aplastic.anemia, particularly in children. I don’t know if you have had the experience of watching the people you love die due to a debilitating illness such as cancer, Alzheimer’s, dementia, or one of these blood diseases or not. Unfortunately, I have watched a number of my closest family members deal with rare, deadly forms of cancer. I know what human suffering looks like, what it feels like, and I do not believe we have the right to play Russian Roulett
I will be the voices of our horses and I say NO TO HORSE SLAUGHTER it is cruel and inhumane and never will be humane for horses. Horsemeat is toxic and not good for humans to eat they were not raised to eat for dinner!!!!!!!
Roulette. I believe that you believe what you are saying about bute is accurate, but the research I have read does not support that that phenylbutazone or it’s metabolite (the chemical compound it becomes after being absorbed by the liver) ever leaves the horse’s body.
I confess that I am more than a little concerned about the statements you make about cattle farmed/ ranchers using phenylbutazone in cows going to market. That means that any unsuspecting person could consume this dangerous drug. How would we know except from hearing from the pro-horse-slaughter crowd that perhaps the source of an illness of the blood, kidney, or cancer is tainted beef? What if cattle producers see this the way you do, and are feeding the public food that will rob people of their health?
This is troublesome.
The FDA vet is the vet in charge of testing drugs. When i sent them an email asking about withdrawl times, i was sent an email that stated ALL DRUGS even banned drugs have a withdrawl period. EVERY SINGLE ONE . The vets can go to the fda site and log in, get on this site that they told me about, ONLY VETS are allowed, and type in the drug and it will give you the time and date when that animal is safe to kill and eat. When i asked about the bute, they FLAT OUT SAID they have NEVER TESTED for it in horses because they are NOT a meat animal IN THEIR WORDS, they did say that they know that horses have been used as meat for yrs. They also stated that bute can’t be used in cattle over 20 months that are milking, BUT can be used for cattle for food, as long as they go by the withdrawl period.
GEESH why can’t you ppl understand that when the FDA states they have a withdrawl for EVERY SINGLE DRUG that they pass or check banned included.
AND christie FInn it has been PROVEN that in order to recieve enough bute by eating so called tainted meat you will have to eat over 100lbs at ONE SITTING to receive even a traceable amount.
BUTE MAY big word MAY cause cancer just like every other drug out there.
Daphne,
I respect you for researching this topic independently from the leaders of UH and UOH. I have been relying on information from the EU due to the fact that some countries in the EU consider horses food animals. Because their citizens do consume horse meat, the governmental regulatory agencies are much more concerned about the effects of drug residues in the tissues of horse meat.
I refer to an article by Peadar O. Scanaill, Chairman of the Animal Remedies Committee of Veterinary Ireland that appeared in Irish Veterinary Journal, Volume 63 Number 12, “Phenylbutazone and its availability in Ireland–prudent prescribing and dispensing”
“The difficulty with phenylbutazone is that it, or its metabolite, can cause aplastic anemia in children. If
child were to consume even the minutest amount of but or its metabolite then that child may develop
may develop aplastic anemia….Use your veterinary expertise and ethical behavior of the highest standards when prescribing the product. One child’s bone-marrow illness could be traced to a meat product which could be traced to an owner and a vet who prescribed bite…Almost 70% of equine medicine usage in veterinary practice consists of products not authorized for treatment of horses intended for human consumption (ref: Decha Veterinary Products booklet promoting responsible phenylbutazone use). If we cannot carry out prudent prescribing for penylbutazone then one wonders will we lose all the above0mentioned products also.”
Since Americans do not eat horse meat, the safety of horse meat for human consumption has not been a front burner issue for U. S. consumers, and therefore, not a pressing concern to the USDA. This makes sense and cents because if no one eats horse meat, then it is not the government’s concern to regulate drugs that are known to improve equine welfare (free from pain) if there is no threat to human welfare as a result.
However, the Irish consider horses athletes and food animals. From the moment of their birth, all horses are considered food animals. However, any drug administered to them must be recorded, and from the first administration of PBZ, it is forever removed from the food pipeline whether the owner of the horse likes it or not. Every horse must have an I. D. (passport), and the veterinarian is in charge of it. If a carcass of a horse tests positive for PBZ then it can be traced to the owner and the vet. I don’t know what the penalty is for the owner, but the vet could lose his or her license.
I have done preliminary investigation into your remarks regarding the USDA veterinarian. I would, however, like to have a name, phone number, and email address so I could ask my specific questions.
Clearly, you are thinking. I had no concern about horse slaughter before two years ago because I assumed that the horses were dead when they were slaughtered. However, even on the Veterinarians for Equine Welfare’s web site which is pretty sterile compared to the USDA’s FOIA report on US horse slaughter from January 2005 through November 2011, horses can be seen pawing at the air as they are approached by the worker preparing to slit their throats. During the bleeding out process, the fully conscious horse can be observed as his muscles gradually lose the muscular tension controlled by the autonomic nervous system until there is finally no movement at all, and the bleeding horse hangs limply upside down from the ceiling.
I haven’t traveled around YouTube trying to view videos of horse slaughter. I don’t follow links to videos from every blog about this subject for the purpose of seeing just how bad it is. I believe the USDA and the Veterinarians for Equine Welfare site are sufficient. However, Animal’s Angels has made a video from some of the footage that is very well done in a video entitled “A Horse’s Worst Nightmare.” This includes photos and video from the USDA report, and there is accompanying legal documentation. This video is more graphic than the VEW site, but not as all inclusive as the USDA’s report.
Daphne, since you are a thinking member of the pro-horse slaughter coalition, I think it would be most helpful for you to suggest to your peers that they reconsider their characterization of Equine Welfare Advocates as extreme radical animal rights people who oppose animal agriculture, do not understand animal agriculture, do not believe in animal agriculture, and are working to create a meatless society.
In truth, animal agriculture has more in common with equine welfare advocates than it does with most of the other groups of animal welfare advocacy. Since horses and burros live on farms and ranches, it is ridicules to suggest that equine welfare advocates know nothing about agriculture, animal agriculture, animal welfare or anything related to livestock as commodities. A number of equine advocates have degrees in agriculture. Involvement with horses is one of the reasons a lot of women get interested in agriculture as a possible business field.
One of the reasons I got involved in these debates is a result of seeing a photo on the BLM’s web site of a water hole obviously destroyed by cattle labeled as having been destroyed by horses. I was boarding on a farm that was used to board and train horses as well as to raise cattle. Every day of that hot summer, I passed the cows lying in algae covered pond water or dug in the mud around this pond while the horses grazed in the adjacent pasture. At times they sipped some water from the troth in their pasture, but then went back to grazing or standing under shade trees head to tail swatting each other’s flies. The photograph I refer to contained neither horses nor cattle. Moreover, it was not taken from a distance that would have allowed someone to look at the hoof prints or see the manure in order to gather more information. I remain skeptical to this day about everything else put out by the BLM that has anything at all to do with wild horses and burros.
If not for that photo, I might be doing something entirely different with my day than discussing PBZ and horse slaughter with you.
Sorry for the misspellings. I don’t know if they were the result of my trying to format the quotes differently, thus adding space and then removing some of it, the auto correct feature, or my own fingers missing the keys.
LYNN- why would i not send my LIVEESTOCK- my horses are NOT COMPANION animals they are my LIVESTOCK,, get it LIVESTOCK, i do NOT consider them pets nor companion animals. BUT to answer your question because I KNOW how to put that horse down humanely and process it FOR MYSELF, BUT If i had to sell them YES i would sell them directly to a slaughter house, IF after many moneths of trying to rehome them and couldnot. I feel that IMHO that a horse being utilized(slaughtered for food, rendered for dog food, is a much better dignified death then rotting in the ground
So you would feel alright that your horse was cut open to have its guts fall to the floor feeling the pain of a horse slaughter house? Really you would not want it to be at your own hand knowing you could do a better job killing your own horse by your own hand? Is the money you receive for selling your companion horse to a slaughter house worth his/her pain by being butchered alive? How much is money worth for the pain and suffering of an animal who has done nothing to you? We train them to trust us and then we send them away to be gutted alive? Does money mean that much? How much does a owner get for the blood of their animal? I do not understand how anyone can trade the love of their horse for money. I charish the last moments of my horse’s life as he died in my arms after being put down by a vet. I charish that I was the last thing he saw as he fell off to a permanent sleep in my arms knowing he was loved. That is the way a companion animal should be put to death in the arms of one who loved them or at least is a place where they do not hear the screams of pain from the horse who they had just met. We do not need their meat, we need to make their death meaningful but not for blood money. They are worth so much more then dog food. Horses have given us so much and their value is so much more then the price of dog food. That is just disgusting to think that they have been so devalued to be worth the amount of dog food.
By the way, dog food makers have not used horse in dog food since the 70’s because dogs were dieing fron eating it. So I know you really didn’t mean that. Horses mean so much more to people and 80% of American’s respect them so much more then just for meat. I think the pro-slaughter people will have a real battle to make the case for eating American horses.
you know lynnL funny when they are HUNG up THEY ARE DEAD, NO BLOOD left in their bodies they are D E A D DEAD. LETS see you all call me a killer- YEP thats me – I PLACED 3 horses in the ground- i guess in your words thats a killer. SURE whatever. lets see horse number one in ground died on the colic table, horse number 2 dead in the ground-put down by a vet( NNEVER EVER again) IF i have to put another horse down they will be BY MY HAND. horse number 3 dead in the ground BY my hand-broken neck shot in the head INSTANT death.
and again read very slowly THEY ARE NOT and i repeat NOT my companion animals they are MY LIVESTOCK animals.
BUT AGAIN why is it that your horses are so special to not be sent to slaughter if you support it so? Many horses just find themselves in the wrong hands, like being stolen or owners lied to about where their horse was going. Why are your horses so special and others aren’t? Still sounds hyporcritical to me. Other people love their horses and never wanted them to go to slaughter.
You are the one who has said many many times how you have seen 500 horses killed in a slaughter house. You are the one who brags about killing them for your friends. It is a very proud time for you to kill them. So you are a killer! And I am not one to argue with such an expert at killing an animal as you are. But from what I know, the horse is hung just after the stun and the throat is cut, then they bleed out after being hung. Of course, I have never seen it done live because it would make me sick, physically sick and my heart and mind could never recover from such horror. So you are the expert at killing and I guess I have to believe what you say right? NOT!
Yes Lynnll The many people that I have talked to would not eat horsemeat they would not be eating their best friends. Horses do learn to trust humans than the people send them to slaughter. I DON”T THINK SO!!! Something wrong with that picture!! The polls show the American people do not want Horse slaughter in the USA!!! Americans don’t eat horses!!!! They are not raised for food!!!!
POLLS funny thing there I was NOT asked, neither was 90% of the AMERICAN POPULATION, the recent poll asked 1000 PPL ONLY and you call it 80% of the population thats more like 2%of the population. UNLESS a poll is taken and asked EVERY AMERICAN PERSON in this world THEN we will belive those numbers but only 1000 ppl polled doesn’t work
They keep saying horse slaughter is humane that’s impossible it will never be. My horses died with love with me, that’s what I call humane when the horse dies knowing he/she had love not brutal horse slaughter some strange place that scares them. Horses do have feelings I know they do!!! NO to horse slaughter and horse slaughter plants here in the USA!!!!
LYNNL- my horses are not anymore special then others, its just I KNOW who im selling them to. BUT once they are sold they no longer belong to me, so that new owner can do whatever they want to with that horse. BUT out of all the horses I have sold and there have been many , there is only 2 that i do not know where they went.
as for me helping my friend kill his horses that he RAISES to fill his freezer, there is NOTHING wrong with that at all. NO ONE said you have to kill horses, he does because he WANTS to feed his family, I go over and help him process the horse, BIG DEAL i know how to process deer, cattle, hogs, goats, horses, etc.
as for me killing horses, YEP i have because it was MY JOB to. IN order for me to graduate I had to work in an area that I chose, I chose to work and LEARN about slaughter houses, I not only worked the stun box, i worked with the persons in charge of hanging,bleeding, skinning, and processing.
lets go over this again. shall we
said horse enters the kill box, horse is shot with a gun or a penatrating captive bolt which either (gun kills instantly) or renders the horse brain dead. Horse is hung , checked to see if horse is dead, bled out, moved down the line to the skinning and what not, then moved to be processed.
99% of the time the horse is dead, there is that 1% that the horse needs to be hit more then once.
NOW i not only stuned horses, I did cattle, hogs, lambs, goats, chicken and one buffalo. does that make me a killer HELL NO, that makes me a person who has worked hands on in a slaughter house, and a person that understand WHY LIVESTOCK are slaughtered.
All that I can say is that you are a “very special person.” No guilt, no feeling for the killing of a helpless animal. You ARE a very special person.
So, Daphne. The slaughterhouse plant you worked at must have had a 100% stun rate. Wow, that’s impressive and also absolutely not possible.
The FOUR videos from the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition that showed horse slaughter by both .22 rifle and captive bolt showed many, many instances of horses being conscious when hauled into the butchering area.
We keep beating (pardong the pun) this subject to death. It has been proven over and over again that assembly-line killing of horses is inhumane and does not work. End of discussion.
loni the one i worked in was a small family run that processed over 300 animals a day. 100% kill rate is why ppl brought them their animals. they started at 6 am and finished at 6pm will the kill box, most stayed till 10pm to finish process or hanging the meat. cattle were hung in the freezer, as were the hogs, lambs, horses, chickens were all processed as soon as the skinning was finished. YOu know its NOT impossible to have a 100% rate, I can give you the number of a local shop in southern ohio that has a 100% kill rate with cattle, sheep, hogs and 3 horses. A family brought them their horses because they could not rehome them, so they paid for the processing and filled their freezer.
YOu know I have YET to push my pro status on you all, i have provided facts and OPs that slaughter houses have a 99 or 100% kill rate, but it seems you are all just watching VIDEOS and instead of actually going and seeing for your self.
That is true Daphne, you are giving us your experience from years ago and also at a small private run facility. Your 100% kill and the kindness the animals had at the small plant will not happen if a new horse killing plant opens in the US. Time is money and when you look at the videos they are not kind nor do they care if the animal is 100% dead before they slit it open. Just read some of the stories from those who worked inside of some of these plants. It has been proven time and time again that the large slaughter plants where time IS money are cruel and inhumane and if new laws are past it will even be illegal to try to keep them in check. One of Temple Grandin’s recommendations was 24/7 offsite video monitoring which is a good example of what will happen if slaughter plants open again and they cannot be monitored. Temple said when she leaves a plant they go right back to their cruel ways. This is the nature of the business and I fear once they are allowed to get up and running again we will never know the torture the animals go through. Especially if the new law sponsored by Rep. Cindy Lummis of WY is past.
Give it a rest DAPHNE WE WILL NEVER AGREE WITH YOU HORSE SLAUGHTER IS INHUMANE AND CRUEL!!! End of story!!!
@heather- If you read the pro side WE ALL AGREE that the horse that was hit 11 times was WRONG, BUT taht doesn’t happen all the time. YOu know what I have better things to do then agure with stupid ppl that only want to see what they want and DO NOT want to see what CAN be. GOODBYE i am done on this topic, you all give me a headache cause its like talking to a brick wall
Daphne,
Until almost two years ago, I thought horses were dead when they were slaughtered. I knew virtually nothing about horse slaughter nor did I want to know. Then somehow I made the connection that the same group of people who want wild horses off public lands are also the same people who want to start up horse slaughter. United Horsemen and Organizations of the Horse are just front groups for the people behind this. I got concerned enough to start following a couple of links, and saw the stabbing of horses in one of the Mexican plants with puntila knives–briefly, and then saw some video about what happens to horses taken to auction that followed horses to the slaughter plants that use the captive bolt.
As a teacher who used to teach research methods and work with students who wanted to pursue careers in science, I want to look at the authority of the person who is producing the video, writing the paper, doing a presentation, a radio talk or special report on TV. Many people without the proper credentials make statements or arguments which are not grounded in sound research. One has to look at studies with a critical eye. All studies and conclusions based on those studies are not equal. Also, you have to look at a lot of the research with a critical eye to see if the research itself is influenced by the researcher’s bias. If you read a study and have questions about why it didn’t explain one concern you have or another, you have to look back to the research question.
I was naive enough to believe that all horses were slaughtered in the type of plant you describe working in—a family owned business, Small, probably mostly local animals, and run by a family probably with ties to the community and people who took some pride in the products they provided. My family has been involved in animal agriculture, and I understand how family farms do business, but agriculture is moving away from animal husbandry into animal production on a large scale. I don’t have a problem with people who do handle their animals humanely.
I think you probably thought of your work as a service to the public providing wholesome food to people. I, personally, have no problem with the work that you did, if indeed, it was done in the manner you describe it. The problem is that that kind of business structure could not be profitable without the mixture of animals that you were processing. I am not certain about the exact federal regulations, but I do not believe that federal law allows the processing of beef and horse meat at the same facility. So, in order to be profitable, companies have to process a lot of horses. Keep in mind that processing this number of horses creates a huge burden on the waste treatment infrastructure, and in order to handle the amount of blood and refuse produced by the numbers of horses processed, you have to have a large capacity waste treatment plan to prevent blood and other contaminants from getting into the soil.
When you were working at the slaughter plant, it probably never crossed your mind that the meat that you thought was healthy and wholesome was actually contaminated with chemicals that could be harmful to people. It would not have crossed mine. However, when Congress prohibited the funding of meat inspectors for slaughter plants in the U. S., the Europeans discovered that the rosy picture of how the U. S. promoted is horse meat as wild horses raised only as food animals was a lie. Since Europeans eat the meat unlike U. S. citizens who find the thought of eating horses repulsive (for the most part), they are much further along in their regulations regarding residues of substances in meat in general, but specifically horse meat. This has only occurred in the past three or four years.
Most of our discussion up to this point has been about the discussion of phenylbutazone and whether it is ever completely out of the horse’s body or whether there is a small amount left. You have presented the argument that phenylbutazone is used to treat cattle if a vet administers it off label. I have done my best to try to find documentation that this is an accepted practice in the veterinary treatment of cattle intended for human consumption (as almost all cows eventually are).
IF it were not for you and your persistent arguments, I would not have pursued this topic. It seemed clear to me that if the FDA prohibited the use of phenylbutazone in all food animals, that would be the end of it. I found a USDA report on the FSIS’s inspection program for measuring the levels of any number of substances that could be in beef. Apparently, there is a system in place to recall meat that may pose an immediate threat to public health such as that that is contaminated with e-coli, but no timely and efficient system is in place for recalling meat that is tested if it contains chemicals like penicillin which could possibly lead to an allergic reaction in people who are allergic to penicillin.
We are not talking about substances found in the kidneys, blood, or other organs. We are talking about substances referred to as residues that are in the tissue of the animal that is consumed by people.
By the way, Ivermectin is specifically prohibited. According to this USDA report Ivermectin is known to cause severe nerve damage according to this report by FSIS.
i learned that there is poor communication between the agencies EPA, USDA, FDA, that are supposed to be monitoring our food safety.
I find it extremely disturbing that Congress approved language that allows for the refunding of horse meat which we can safely assume is likely contaminated with any number of substances that are going to be deadly to people. According to the article that I referred to previously, 70% of all drugs used on horses are prohibited in horses to be used as food animals.
I am extremely concerned about these revelations. I am going to share my concerns with my local, state, and federal agricultural agencies as well as my local, federal, and state representatives. The FSIS is woefully underfunded and the amount of testing being done is grossly insufficient and the type of testing is totally inefficient. I am willing to support increased funding for agriculture if the funding goes to FSIS, but not if it is to be spent on inspectors for horse meat.
If there were no other reasons (such as the humane and environmental issues) this issue alone should be sufficient to end all talk of funding inspectors for horse.
Daphne, you have worked in a slaughter plant. You understand the process of what happens in a small abattoir better than most of us ever could. However, I have lost most of my family to prolonged battles with insidious forms of cancer, and I can tell without reservation that watching the people you love die—going to the cancer centers while they get their chemotherapy, have blood transfusions, or get their blood thinned, when they can no longer eat but are not ready to die, so they are fed through IV’s or through tubes inserted through the mouth that create blisters because the person’s organs just won’t shut down fast enough and then they have to have tracheotomy because their mouth and throat are too raw. ( If a person hasn’t said they don’t want certain life supporting treatments, in some states doctors have to treat.) Watch a person die an organ at a time, and maybe you will think more about the possibility that the meat you are sending to people whose faces you will never see, may cause them to endure the pain of watching a child or a parent, a spouse, a neighbor, a best friend die like this. I have been there and done that. My family and I have searched for causes and reasons why a rare form of cancer picked a member of our family to suffer a painful and horrific death. Research I have done on at three of the kinds of cancer that have hit my family has stated that exposure to certain chemicals can trigger one of the types of cancer from which they eventually died.
It is incomprehensible to me why an industry would insist on inflicting this kind of pain on both the person who consumes the contaminated meat and the family who must endure the illness with them. We are all at the mercy of the role of the dice here.
If you didn’t give a flip about horses or their welfare, I would think you would have an empathy button for your fellow human beings that would say after you examined the subject for yourself, that the evidence that does exist regarding the potential harm to human life is strong enough to oppose the slaughter of U. S. horses.
Horse slaughter is not the answer to equine welfare problems. Horse slaughter, like the slaughter of any animal, is about food production.
There are too many horses for the market to handle due to multiple factors, most of which are due to our economy. Historically, when the economy is bad, animals, particularly companion animals suffer. The existence of horse slaughter perpetuates the problem of too many horses because you have too many professional breeders that refuse to cut back on their breeding and they continue to glut the market. If horse slaughter and the transportation of horses to slaughter becomes the law of the land, only then will we see production cut. Hopefully, our country’s economy will improve and when that happens, perhaps the market for horses will rebound.
Daphne You will not change us so give up you be happy eating horsemeat We will be trying to save the horses people throw away. Those horses deserve a life after all they have done for people thru the years.
There are lots of things that we don’t understand when this happens. It isn’t like the horses are becoming scrap metal in Vancouver or anything. Well, they would be trash if they didn’t use it all, but I’ll bet they do use it all. The way they slaughter cows is very humane and I’ll bet they do the same thing with horses. The only people who kill animals for fun are hunters, but even they eat or sell the meat and use the other parts somehow. P.S. When you call someone stupid or an idiot online, it just shows how uneducated you are because you can’t calmly and intelligently argue your point while still acknowledging the usual validity of the other side.
ok first off, umm im a hunter and I DON”T hunt for FUN, i hunt to put food on my table.
secondly Shirley it can be humane, I guess you have never seen the utube video of the slaughter house where they are walked in one at a time with one person handling the horse and the gun, ONE SHOT< horse is DEAD. putting much humane
Oh Daphne, you haven’t changed in all these years. First off the guy is on your side about horse slaugter and second you hunt because you love to kill. Remember you even help your friends and neighbors kill their horses and then eat the meat too. Face it, you love to kill! bottom line.
And horse slaughter can not be a profitable business if every horse is lead in one by one and killed in the manor you say. The only way for horse slaughter to make money is to kill in mass and then that is when it becomes very inhumane. There is nothing that slaughter houses can do to make it humane since time is money and they don’t have the time to make sure the animal is dead before they start to chop them up.
And Tyson you have not watched any of the videos from cattle slaughter houses if you think it is humane. The public just denies its inhumane so they can eat the meat without guilt. Many cattle are still alive when butchered too. The slaughter of most animals is not humane. You need to do some research.
Horses are flight animals by nature and horse slaughter for them will NEVER BE HUMANE! Even the experts have said so. Killing horses is so WRONG!!!
Slaughtering horses is just WRONG— end of story!
I hope we can get horse slaughter banned this New Year!